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   Old CFNM swimming again
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cd
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Old CFNM swimming again
« on: Nov 25th, 2006, 4:09pm »
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A new post from the Yahoo YMCA group.  Don't believe guys wore speedos or anything that skimpy in the 40's and 50's, but it may be credible.  No more specific info as to place given.
 
-----
 
Your post is a good one and really reflects on how far we have come
for a time when men were proud of their bodies and not intimidated
to cover up in front of other men and even in front of women.
 
My dad and I talked about this last night and I wanted to share
several comments from his experiences as an "often naked" athlete.
I have posted some of mine previously but will add a few things in a
separate post.
 
For my dad, he swam at the Y since he was a little kid, took swim
lessons there, wrestled, did gymnastics and also played water polo.
For swim lessons and swim meets the guys were all naked as was the
coach. For meets at his Y and other Y's everything was naked.
Occasionally there were open meets with high schools, swim clubs,
etc. These usually involved wearing a speedo but meets with some
other all male clubs were naked. He did remember that at a few of
the meets with some swim clubs involved nudity in front of women --
both teams swam naked, there were women present. Some women were
spectators and some even involved in the meet. This was all in the
forties and fifties. He said that being bare then was just part of
being a competitive swimmer and it was a matter of pride to the guys
on the team that they were not bothered by being fully exposed –
part of the macho ethic that surrounded the sport. Guys were proud
of their dicks and saw no reason to be embarrassed or to hide their
manhood.
 
He also played water polo and that was always played naked –
otherwise the problem you face is guys grabbing your suit. Other
than Y water polo competitions, there were water polo clubs through
some of the private men's clubs and the colleges that had teams.
Some of the meets only had men spectators but he said there were
several clubs that had meets each season where attendance was open
to women. The guys on both teams knew in advance that wives,
mothers, sisters, etc would be there and that they would be naked in
front of a mixed crowd. Again, this was part of being a man and an
athlete – for water polo you competed naked. This went on into the
50's.
 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YMCAnaked/message/13853
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #1 on: Nov 25th, 2006, 7:26pm »
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I was not around in that time. I do though think that this happened.
 
I grew up in the 80'+90's. Even then women where present when I was nude or semi nude. Not at the YMCA but at school!
 
I remember being in elementry school and the teacher coming into the boys bathrrom while we where acting up. Guys would be peeing in front of her and everything. Also I have had scolious test done on the whol boys gym class by 2 women nurses or Doctors when I was 13 or 14.  We where all in our underware for that.
 
I have also had my knee looked at wearing just a Jock Strap by a Nurse in High Scholl football.
 
So hearing that the Y use to let guys swim nude in front of women in the 50's sounds real to me.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #2 on: Nov 25th, 2006, 8:10pm »
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on Nov 25th, 2006, 7:26pm, RonW wrote:

 
I remember being in elementry school and the teacher coming into the boys bathrrom while we where acting up. Guys would be peeing in front of her and everything. Also I have had scolious test done on the whol boys gym class by 2 women nurses or Doctors when I was 13 or 14.  We where all in our underware for that.
 
I have also had my knee looked at wearing just a Jock Strap by a Nurse in High Scholl football.
 
So hearing that the Y use to let guys swim nude in front of women in the 50's sounds real to me.

 
No one would doubt your post RonW.  On a grammar school level, women teachers certainly did enter the boys bathrooms to control matters.  Probably still happens.  And medical CFNM with nurses has always been around.
Nude swim meets in front of women are a different matter entirely.  It's not unbelievable that it could have happened in that time period.  Speedos didn't exist at that time and skimpy male bathing suits also weren't in common usage, but I don't really know what swim teams in that era might have worn.  It could have been something similar to a speedo.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #3 on: Nov 25th, 2006, 9:45pm »
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Here's a link to a team picture from 1955:
 
http://www.cosst.org/1955.htm
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #4 on: Nov 26th, 2006, 1:25am »
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Speedos were invented around 1959, IIRC. Nylon didn't come into wide use until used for parachutes in WWII, and without nylon you don't have Speedos. It was apparently quite common to practice in nothing but wear suits for meets.  
 
Except for a single description of Harvard intramural meets immediately post-WWII, I've never across a plausible description of meets with nude swimmers, even with an all-made audience.  
 
Nurses have long stood outside the rules. Although there was a West Coast Boy Scout camp with a large site that described an organized history of skinny-dipping, which pointed out that the only women at the camp, the cook and the nurse, made themselves scarce at swim time. And on Visitors' Day, boys who didn't bring a suit just didn't swim.
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #5 on: Nov 26th, 2006, 6:55pm »
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on Nov 25th, 2006, 8:10pm, cd wrote:

 
No one would doubt your post RonW.  On a grammar school level, women teachers certainly did enter the boys bathrooms to control matters.  Probably still happens.  And medical CFNM with nurses has always been around.
Nude swim meets in front of women are a different matter entirely.  It's not unbelievable that it could have happened in that time period.  Speedos didn't exist at that time and skimpy male bathing suits also weren't in common usage, but I don't really know what swim teams in that era might have worn.  It could have been something similar to a speedo.

 
If you didn't exist at that time period you've only stories to go by. Must we fight this battle yet again? The 1950s weren't Happy Days except for the clothing style, the cars, the furnishings.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #6 on: Nov 26th, 2006, 7:36pm »
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on Nov 26th, 2006, 6:55pm, PC wrote:

 
If you didn't exist at that time period you've only stories to go by. Must we fight this battle yet again? The 1950s weren't Happy Days except for the clothing style, the cars, the furnishings.

 
 
?? What are you talking about.  I did exist at that time.  No one's fighting a battle besides you.
 
I gave a link from elsewhere for those who might be interested and expressed some skepticism of my own including the mention of speedos, which didn't exist yet.  I keep an open mind on whether it ever happened, but I've never seen a convincing account including this one.
« Last Edit: Nov 26th, 2006, 9:15pm by cd » IP Logged
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #7 on: Nov 26th, 2006, 7:55pm »
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Here we go again, the same old myth about nude swimming in front of women at the Y.  I was around in the 50's.  I practically lived at the Y.  We certainly went swimming in the nude.  The boys also went nude in swimming class in junior high school and high school.  Girls wore suits.  There was no mixed swimming.  The coach or the lifeguard wore clothes.  Nude swimming meets; never happened!  Even though the boys went in nude during swim class, the boys swim team wore suits even in practice.  Nude swimming in front of females didn't even take place during the sexual revolution of the 60's.
 
Female teacher in boys washrooms in elementary school.  Saw it happen.  Lined up in front of the doctor with female teacher present to be examined in underwear in elementary school.  I was there.  Have I ever had a nurse examine me in the nude.  You bet!  Mixed swim classes with the boys nude.  Never happened!  I once saw a female employee at the Y go to the top of the stairs look down and see into the swim area where men were nude in order to call a male employee that he had a telephone call.  
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #8 on: Nov 27th, 2006, 1:54am »
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on Nov 26th, 2006, 7:36pm, cd wrote:

 
 
?? What are you talking about.  I did exist at that time.  No one's fighting a battle besides you.
 
I gave a link from elsewhere for those who might be interested and expressed some skepticism of my own including the mention of speedos, which didn't exist yet.  I keep an open mind on whether it ever happened, but I've never seen a convincing account including this one.

 
Well, I don't remember if you were here for all the denials that there were ever even any nude swim classes. I was worried that would be unleashed.
I was alive then, but it happened I didn't take any swim classes because of terrible asthma and breathing problems -- so I was in no nude swim classes. Some guys I knew were and swam nude.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #9 on: Nov 27th, 2006, 2:34am »
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on Nov 27th, 2006, 1:54am, PC wrote:

 
Well, I don't remember if you were here for all the denials that there were ever even any nude swim classes. I was worried that would be unleashed.
 

 
Literally over 100000 guys have swum nude in high schools and Y's throughout this country.  Documentation can easily be found online if any doubt it.  I swam nude in high school in the Chicago public school system in the 50's.  The practice continued till the early 70's.  Also swam nude at a Y later on till it went coed, also to the 70's.  It does seem bizarre to many people today, but it is undeniable that it was routine in those days.  There were never any women around at any of the places where I swam.
I do believe that CFNM swimming did occur, especially in rural areas with swimming holes.  They are hard to fully document though, and I'm always interested in those stories, though many are fiction.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #10 on: Nov 27th, 2006, 7:39pm »
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True or not, I find the concept of CFNM swimming to be fascinating. Thanks to all who've posted about their experiences about nude swimming, whether it was CFNM or an all-male environment.
 
I'm too young to have experienced institutionally-sanctioned nude swimming firsthand. I absolutely believe that it existed in all-male environments. I suspect that CFNM swimming did occur in some isolated contexts that would be difficult to verify. Truth or fiction, I find the stories enjoyable.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #11 on: Nov 27th, 2006, 8:37pm »
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I have said many times on here: Swim classes were held NUDE for boys at Amherst High School (suburb of Buffalo NY) up unitl the early 80s. No females were present (except a very few accidents). Nude swimming in amherst ended about 81.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #12 on: Nov 27th, 2006, 8:44pm »
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What again was the reason for nude swimming classes?  I thought I heard hygiene, what's unhygienic about a swimsuit?  Were girl's swim classes also done in the nude?
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #13 on: Nov 27th, 2006, 9:13pm »
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C5 wrote:
What again was the reason for nude swimming classes?  I thought I heard hygiene, what's unhygienic about a swimsuit?
 
Well, quite. The reason given by YMCA management was that the fabric of the swim suits carried dirt and fibres that clogged the water filtration systems.  
 
Were girl's swim classes also done in the nude?
 
To the best of my knowledge in my home town, girls classes weren't held at the YMCA because we had a separate YWCA. I never heard of the YW requiring girls to swim nude.
 
The only time I ever swam at our YMCA was at a co-ed birthday party for a girl in our high school class where, of course, we all wore suits. Somehow the filtration system was deemed able to cope with this.
 
I personally think the hygiene argument was contrived and spurious. The same YMCA held a summer boys' camp where the boys were also required to swim nude in the lake! It was a YMCA culture thing, I believe, where boys were considered not to need to be "modest" about their nakedness. It was considered to be "manly" to be at ease with your nakedness with other males.
 
Whether there were more sinister motives than this, I cannot say.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #14 on: Nov 27th, 2006, 9:36pm »
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on Nov 27th, 2006, 9:13pm, SteveH wrote:
C5 wrote:
What again was the reason for nude swimming classes?  I thought I heard hygiene, what's unhygienic about a swimsuit?
 
 

 
The reasons are multiple, and it's hard to know now which are the most important.  Nylon and synthetic materials are a recent invention ( ? 60's).  Before that swimming suits were heavy and uncomfortable.  Some were wool which really drags you down.  And of course if they're not washed regularly they become un-hygienic. So men preferred to swim bare when they could; it's an ancient tradition.  And some of the old suit material could clog the pool filters.  Why didn't that apply to women as well?  Well who knows.  More to do with cultural taboos than rationality; women wouldn't have accepted it.   And men swam far more than women in those days, so they just tended to ignore the lesser element of women's swim classes.  Men were conditioned not to be concerned about group nudity.  Anyone who was drafted was exposed to large doses of group nudity and I have even heard it suggested that forced nude swimming in school would help the boys prepare for the draft.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #15 on: Nov 27th, 2006, 9:46pm »
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So is it confirmed that there were no nude swim classes at the YWCA?
 
As far as hygiene, weren't they using chlorine?  Standing water isn't exactly hygienic.  Couldn't a pre-shrunk cotton be used to provide some modesty.  I find it odd to be ok for swim teams of the era to use suits, but not John Q Public.  
 
I swam growing up, so I find this interesting.  We were required to shower off before getting in the pool even though there was enough chlorine in there to kill just about anything.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #16 on: Nov 27th, 2006, 11:10pm »
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on Nov 27th, 2006, 9:46pm, C5 wrote:
So is it confirmed that there were no nude swim classes at the YWCA?
 
As far as hygiene, weren't they using chlorine?  Standing water isn't exactly hygienic.  Couldn't a pre-shrunk cotton be used to provide some modesty.  I find it odd to be ok for swim teams of the era to use suits, but not John Q Public.  
 
I swam growing up, so I find this interesting.  We were required to shower off before getting in the pool even though there was enough chlorine in there to kill just about anything.

 
 
Never heard of any organized nude swimming classes for women anywhere.  And YW's were more oriented to social action than physical health and recreation.  Many had no pools.  Some had no phys ed facilities at all.   When YM's went fully coed in the 70's, many YW's went out of business.
 
Most pools were chlorinated.  The hygiene aspects weren't related to the water, but to the supposed tendency of young men of leaving their suits moldering in their gym bags or lockers unwashed and then wearing them again.  Nude swimming avoided this issue.  All high schools that I ever heard of supplied the suits to the women and washed them after each swim.  The women's suits in my high school were sacks something like over sized tee shirts.  Some schools supplied suits for the boys, some of whom didn't even own their own.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #17 on: Nov 28th, 2006, 12:57am »
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Too bad, I'd really like to hear some female nude swimming stories.
 
I would've liked the school to buy our speedos.  They were like $30 in the early '90s, for what?
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #18 on: Nov 28th, 2006, 7:13am »
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Here is a relevant story recently posted to the Yahoo CFNM Swimming forum:
 
----------------------------------
 
Munich, 1972, school nude swimming  
 
In the summer of 1972 I had a peculiar experience. I can't get it out
of my mind even after all this time.
 
I was going to university to become a teacher. At the end of the
winter term - about mid-April - another guy and I flew to Europe. We
spent a month backpacking around France, Spain and then ended up in
Munich, Germany where my friend had relatives who would put us up for
a few days.
 
I didn't speak a word of German so my friend did the talking for both
of us. My friend's family wanted to spend some time alone with him.
They arranged for me to spend one day as a student observer at a city
public school.
 
My friend and his family took me to the principal's office, dumped me
off, then headed out for whatever they were going to do. I met the
principal and he led me to a classroom where I was introduced to the
lady teacher. She spoke some English, but not much.
 
The school classrooms were segregated by gender. The class I was
observing was made up of all boys, about 16 or 17 years of age.
 
Just before 11 o'clock the teacher made an announcement to the class.
Everyone put away their books and filed outside toward a bus that was
waiting in the parking lot. I tagged along. When we were on the bus
the teacher explained to me that they were going to hallenbaden (or
something like that).
 
It was a short trip - only a few blocks. The bus stopped in front of
a large building. We went into the lobby, then down a hallway to a
locker room. From the moisture in the air it was obviously an indoor
swimming pool. The students knew the routine. They selected empty
lockers and starting stripping out of their clothes.
 
It felt a bit weird having the whole class of boys undress in front
of their teacher. It got stranger still when a naked man came out of
a side office and strolled over toward us. (Note entirely naked. He
was wearing a whistle on a string around his neck and shabby, untied
tennis shoes.) The lady teacher didn't seem the least bit concerned
about all the nudity, so I just sort of shuffled my feet and tried to
pretend that I was "cool" with everything too. The guy said something
in German to the teacher, then strolled off to where her students
were milling around among the lockers. The teacher waived for me to
follow and she led me to the side office.
 
There was a coffee pot on a little table, with sugar and milk powder.
We fixed ourselves cups of coffee, founds chairs, and struggled to
carry on some sort of conversation in the simplest English words we
could find.
 
In the background we could hear the sound of the class splashing in
the water. At times we were almost shouting in order to make
ourselves heard. Finally the noise was simply too overwhelming and
we gave up any attempt at conversation. We just sat there, side by
side, sipping miserable coffee, smoking, and looking toward the pool
through the office window so we could watch the kids and lifeguard go
through their pool drills.
 
 
After about three-quarters of an hour the lifeguard called for the
attention of the swimmers. Everyone pulled themselves out of the pool
and padded, naked back into the locker room. The lifeguard trailed
behind the last of the students. He came into the office and poured
a cup of coffee which he took with him when he returned to continue
supervising the students.
 
The lady teacher took her time to finish her cigarette then we went
back to take charge of the class of boys who were drying themselves
off and getting dressed. The lifeguard ambled over to us and started
up a happy conversation with the teacher. They were speaking real
German and I couldn't understand a word of what they were saying. (I
assumed that it was something about the Canadian student being an
idiot.)
 
When all the students were dressed and ready to leave, we got them
into a line and herded them back onto the bus which returned us to
the school.
 
That afternoon, after lunch, I took my assigned position at the back
of the class and tried to stay awake while everyone worked away in
the language that I didn't know.
 
I really did not want to seem like I was uptight about all the guys
getting naked in front of the lady teacher. But, it did fascinate
me. When I had a chance I casually brought up the subject with my
friend. He somehow sensed that the topic was of more than passing
interest to me. That made him try to taunt me about being "uptight
about the human body." It was the hippy era, when no young man
wanted to be "uptight". So I just dropped the matter. But, I have
not been able to get it out of my mind.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #19 on: Nov 28th, 2006, 3:08pm »
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Not sure of what the original post is about as I dont have the required yahoo i.d. to view the sight. I guess there is some question as to bathing suits. I am 62 so I was a child in the 50s. Did not have a real bathing suit till I was 10 or 11. Mostly swam nude up to that age as I recalled on my previous post. When we boys got to the age we were expected to wear suit we wore brief style suits similar to todays speedoes. There were a few boxer style suits around but they were mostly worn by older men. At that time women all wore 1 piece suits. Brief style seemed to go out when the surfer craze hit and guys started wearing what was called JAMES , everyone wanting to look like surfers. Even remember guys tying a surf boards to their cars when they could not swim.  
 Dont know when the idea of brief style suits became gay, they are a lot more comfortable and popular with germans I see on the beach. Sort of like the basketball shorts of the 50s and 60s becoming gay and all straights having to wear shorts with the crotch hanging down to the knees and legs brushing their ankles, getto style.  
 While I am here I would like to comment again that yes we did swim nude at the Y. Only on one occasion do I remember mothers and sisters being present while we boys swam. Yes the women staff at the Y would on occasion be at the pool area and no one cared that I can remember. Never participated in any swimming or diving events so I can comment on what the dress requirements were. Never knew of a high school that had a pool so again I cant comment on dress code. We are going to have to rely on peoples memories and take them for there word as I dont believe this would have been a serious topic to take pictures of or write about at the time. Did go to boy scout camp a few weeks each summer and just can not remember if we swam nude or not.  
 One more thing. Was the YMCA forced to admit women? Seem to remember a mens  club in NYC that was forced to admit women, then the women complained about the men swimming nude.   thanks for listening  LEO C.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #20 on: Nov 28th, 2006, 4:39pm »
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on Nov 28th, 2006, 3:08pm, leo_c wrote:
 
 One more thing. Was the YMCA forced to admit women? Seem to remember a mens  club in NYC that was forced to admit women, then the women complained about the men swimming nude.   thanks for listening  LEO C.  

 
Don't know of any YMCA that was forced to admit women.  There was a push by the national Y to go coed, a highly successful move on their part.  Most areas had YWCAs so that there was little evidence of unequal treatment.  Some YWs are still female only.  Many YWs have gone out of business in part because they lost patrons to the YM.
Private clubs have been forced to go coed on the claim that they are business establishments where commerce is transacted.  Think that was the case in NYC.  In other places state laws require places that sell liquor to not discriminate, and that covered many other male establishments.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #21 on: Nov 29th, 2006, 5:32am »
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on Nov 27th, 2006, 8:37pm, jasbauer wrote:
I have said many times on here: Swim classes were held NUDE for boys at Amherst High School (suburb of Buffalo NY) up unitl the early 80s. No females were present (except a very few accidents). Nude swimming in amherst ended about 81.

 
Since I had never heard about any nude school swimming until about five years ago, it feels odd to think that I'm old enough to have experienced this firsthand if I'd lived somewhere else.  I've never seen any such accounts from California, perhaps because of the greater prevalence of outdoor pools.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #22 on: Nov 29th, 2006, 7:19pm »
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In the Toronto area, boys swam naked in public schools until some point in the 1970's, and also at the University of Toronto Hart House pool in the 1960's. That changed when some fanatical feminists insisted on equal rights to the pool at all times, and of course the university caved in.
 
There were never women or girls present, except for the occasional scheduling foul-up. In grade 8 we had double phys ed classes. The girls (fullu suited of course) would swim in the first period, and the boys (naked) in the second. One fateful day, the boys finished early, or the girls were late, and a troop of naked boys traipsed into the pool area still occupied by the girls. I remember the girls' reactions varied from acute embarrassment, to hooting and laughing, to intense interest.
 
That same year someone poked a brick out of the pool wall .. the other side being the girls' locker area. I suspect some CFNM perv boy did the poking. I don't know how long the brick was out .. at least one day, possibly days or weeks I guess .. I remember a lineup of girls taking turns peeking at the boys during an after-hours swim. The usual reaction was loud giggling with very red faces. One guy apparently walked up to the hole, and stuck his dick in it .. I always suspected he was the brick-poker-outer.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #23 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 2:51pm »
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And it isn't just male nudity that gets shrugs. Europeans simply have a far different attitude towards nudity; much healthier in my opinion. I've seen coed groups of office workers out for some lunchtime tanning at a nearby park, where young women would think nothing of doffing their tops.
 
And in Maastricht (The Netherlands), one summer day a gaggle of girls ... late teens ... every last one of them long-legged and blonde and drop-dead-gorgeous and fit ... had been rowing or kayaking, changed from their swimsuits back into street-clothes right in the middle of a city parkette by the beach, with scores of pedestrians nearby. No towels were raised for modesty, they just stepped out of their bikinis and into jeans and tops, sweet tight asses shining away as they bent over, without giving it a second's thought. None of the local pedestrians seemed to be taken aback ... no big deal ...
 
Of course Germans are known world-wide for nude sunbathing, even where it might not be locally permitted. The notion you might have to keep your suit on, is alien to them.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #24 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 6:09pm »
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Does anyone else watch "Rick Steves' Europe" on PBS?  On an episode about Germany, he went to Baden Baden and visited one of the spas.  The cameras didn't show any nudity, but several times he was nude in front of clothed women.  Most of the spa was separated by sex and many of the attendants on the male side were female.  There was one coed nude pool that he and his wife swam in, again the camera avoided showing anyone's bits.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #25 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 6:14pm »
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Hello, thought I would respond to those that are unable to find actual, factual proof concerning nude swimming. You are probably searching in vain. Its not a subject that warrrented any kind of newspaper or magazine articles at that time period. You mostly have to rely on the recollections of people now in their 50s, 60s, 70s. And I believe there are only a few of us here at this sight.
  If I told you that people once flew in airplanes powered by pistons and propellers, that would be easy to verify. If I said that post war cars came without heaters, radioes, rt. hand sunvisors and directional signals, that would probably would take a lot more searching to verify. Same way with nude swimming at the Y with females being present. Who would wright about it, who would care? The info just is not there, just peoples recolations.
  As I relayed in an old post, this did happen to me once. Was not a regular Y patron, just the yearly swimming class in the afternoon. We could all swim but it was called lessons. I wont go in to details, just some boys mothers show up with daughters in toe to witness the class. Only a few boys and the instructor have suits so the rest of boys swam nude for the next hour or so demonstrating our really non existant swim class. No one got embarissed, offended, or mentally destroyed for life. It was a male enviroment and the women chose to enter it. If this happened to me I am certain it occured to otheres over time.  
 As for high school swimming, dont know, never did it. I believe school pools might have been more common in private schools. Did the boys swim nude? Why not? Some people here said they did, good enough for me. As for female trainers and life guards, I never saw one but common sense tells me that at some time somewhere this occured and would have not been overly important to make note of. Here again you have to rely on the few people who post here who have had the experience.  
 It was not uncommon to have one of the female Y employees in the pool area on occasions. Was the Y that I attended the only one on the continent where this happened? I dont think so. Everything was professional and they were accepted just like a nurse at a boys physical exam. As for female instructors, of cource they would have been clothed, to have them also nude would have been something that eventually hit the newspapers. Nude boys OK, nude woman VERY unprofessional . Just trying to tell it like it was. As I said, I dont believe there or that many at this sight who can tell you how things were.  thanks  leo
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #26 on: Nov 30th, 2006, 7:00pm »
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It was simply something that was done at the time and nobody thought it was even worth much comment.
Usually it was all male, but on some occasions women were present. nothing much was made of it.
 
I didn't do it for reasons given but some other boys I knew did.
 
I wish I knew why it's difficult to grasp for some. In the 1950s there were female doctors and in other male occupations they're now not thought to have had till the 80s or so. People took their clothes off, sometimes in semi-public. Women would skinny-dip with other women...
To me this has taken on the dimensions of a cultural puzzle -- not the nudity 50 years ago but the difficulty some now have in believing it.
We did it in the 1960s, only the sexes were often together as equals: that was the difference. Even then, some girls only went topless. The difference was that the women present weren't always or usually in a socially dominant position after 60s.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #27 on: Dec 1st, 2006, 2:50am »
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Quote:
Hello, thought I would respond to those that are unable to find actual, factual proof concerning nude swimming. You are probably searching in vain. Its not a subject that warrrented any kind of newspaper or magazine articles at that time period.

 
I tend to agree with Bilbo Baggin's statement that "If you want to find something there's nothing like looking."
 
Now, look where?
 
The Boys' Clubs had a house organ, "Boys Club Service" which dealt with such dull questions as what kinds of doors to use in a natatorium, how to set up a swim gymkana, etc. Perhaps, especially during WWII, someone aaked, "What if your male swim instructors have gone to war and only women are available?"  
 
The YMCA National Council archives are at the University of Minnesota library.
 
Life magazine printed pictures of boys swimming nude at the Boys Club in Olneyville, RI. There are spectators, but text covering them. The negatives, without the text, and in a university library in Texas.
 
The YWCA must have archives somewhere too, and they must have had the same question.
 
A fellow on the YMCA Yahoo group was looking into some of this - including the YMCA archives - but he hasn't reported back.
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #28 on: Dec 1st, 2006, 11:13am »
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I share PC's puzzlement about why anyone should not believe this nude swimming happened, and he's right to say that "It was simply something that was done at the time and nobody thought it was even worth much comment. "
 
My only experience of this was in September 1954 (to be exact). I was a freshman in a small men-only liberal arts college in upstate NY. Everyone had to pass a swimming test; those who didn't had to take swimming lessons until they could, or else they wouldn't get their degree (These days this may be just as unbelievable as nude swimming!). So a group of our class were told to report one evening to the swimming pool to take the test. There were maybe 30-40 of us.  
 
Now, we were not told "you must take the test nude"; it was just that most of us understood that most guys using the pool swam nude. That made sense to us - why bother to wear a suit when it's all men? No big deal; as PC says, "it was simply something done at the time". Trying to recall attitudes of the time, I would say that it was thought to be "manly" to be relaxed being nude in front of other men in a sports context, although no one ever said that - it was just a cultural given. I suppose that I took the test nude because I didn't want to stand out or be different - there's some 1950s conformity for you!
 
I recall that of the 30-40 maybe one wore a jock strap (which I thought looked a bit silly) and maybe a few guys wore suits, but the vast majority of us took the test naked and never gave it a thought.  
 
Fortunately I passed, and I never used the pool again . I believe the swim team normally practiced in the nude, and in the recreational swimming times (men only) most swam nude. But I stress this was custom and practice and was never a requirement.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #29 on: Dec 1st, 2006, 11:55am »
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Does somebody have a problem believing it?  It seems that the only argument is whether women were ever present.  I'd like to know if girls swam nude together in any such classes.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #30 on: Dec 1st, 2006, 2:25pm »
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on Dec 1st, 2006, 11:13am, SteveH wrote:
I believe the swim team normally practiced in the nude, and in the recreational swimming times (men only) most swam nude. But I stress this was custom and practice and was never a requirement.    

 
Swimming nude may have been optional in some colleges, but it was certainly a requirement in the Chicago public schools.  We never gave it a thought.  There was nothing sexual or humiliating about it at the time. Most of us hated it because the pool room and water were designed to keep penguins comfortable, not students.  It was always freezing. And as there was no free swim, it was darn hard to warm up.
 
When I swam nude later at the YMCA, I don't think it was required.  Certainly no sign was posted.  But I never saw anyone swim in a suit.  Again we never thought anything of it.
 
As I said before, I don't doubt that CFNM swimming occurred.  In urban settings it must have been very rare and localized.  Only a few posts to this have any real plausibility.  I believe leo_c's multiple posts though fuller details are always welcome.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #31 on: Dec 2nd, 2006, 10:05am »
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CD ask for more details, I will try to keep it brief. This subject i believe was my original post back maby apr. Swam at the Y one afternoon a week in new brunswick N.J. Ended when i got out of grammer school at the age of 13 in 1958.  
 Very hard to remember as it was a long time ago and not an important incident. It was called lessons but was actually supervised recreation. Might have been 15 of us ages between 10 and 13. Figure I was 13 at the time. We show up one afternoon and the instructor ask us if we have suits. We swam nude and of cource none of us had. Why, what for?  He explains that we are having a demonstration and that mothers and sisters will be present for our class.
 Four of the boy who must have gone to school together or lived close together had there families with them as well as some sort of suit. Anyway they had appairently gotten the message and were prepaired. Looked like the rest of us were going to sit this one out and were dissapointed. However the instructor tells us to go on a get to the pool. So for the next hour and a half maby, we boys swam nude demonstrating or kicking, diving, back stroke etc. with the mothers and some sisters of various ages sitting in the smal bleachers looking on. we walked around the the pool and bleacher area with no concern of them being there. To my knowledge nothing was ever said, there were no comments, no one was offended. It was normal!
 As I recollected on my original post, the fact that 4 boys and the instructor had suits tells me that the Y must have had some pratice in place where males were not required to swim nude if women were present and they chose to cover up. That about all I can remember, was a non event and close to 50 yrs ago.  sure wish I could get those innocient day back!  LEO C.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #32 on: Dec 2nd, 2006, 2:50pm »
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I once ran across, in a non-specialized venue, a fellow describing how his Boy Scout Troops's skinny-dipping at the YMCA, and the film being shown at Parents's Night (not Fathers' Night)  to general laughter.
 
Time-shifted CFNM, perhaps. But quite in line with your memories.
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #33 on: Dec 3rd, 2006, 3:38am »
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on Nov 27th, 2006, 8:37pm, jasbauer wrote:
I have said many times on here: Swim classes were held NUDE for boys at Amherst High School (suburb of Buffalo NY) up unitl the early 80s. No females were present (except a very few accidents). Nude swimming in amherst ended about 81.
I went to school at Grand Island High, very close to Amherst. Yes it was all nude swimming for boys during that time period. The embarassing part was lining up one at a time for diving practice. Even more embarassing was the check for planters warts on our feet while we were nude. We boys had to kneel nude on a tile bench facing the wall while the gym teachers would stroll past our butts and examine the bottom of our feet. No women or girls though.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #34 on: Dec 3rd, 2006, 6:58pm »
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Leo C.
 
Thanks for all your posts. I never attended YMCA Swimming Events, but my father, who fought in WW II, did. He did swim nude, but there were no female instructors, or spectators present.
I'm surprised that you and the other boys, in 1958, didn't stick to your guns, and sit that one out. Or else, that you didn't tell the coach that you wished to go home and get your swimsuits. As a Catholic School student, I would have considered this to be morally offensive, and definitely said no to the coach, even if he said that, if I didn't swim nude in front of the mothers & sisters of all ages, I couldn't swim there again! I don't mean to limit my inhibitions to me attending parochial school; I'm sure I would have done the same in public school. In fact, I was in public school by age 13.  
Of course, I'm more comfortable with CFNM today, but still feel it should never be imposed on any male to be viewed, or female to watch!
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #35 on: Dec 4th, 2006, 1:20am »
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DONALD, I believe you have missed the point. None of us were required to swim that day. It was not important to us. Anyone could have sat out the time but I dont believe anyone did. I believe the matter was handeled correctly for the time. I was in 8th. grade of a catholic school at the time.  
 There is one more thing I seem to remember about that day. On my last post I was not absolutely sure this occured so I did not mention it but the thought keeps reoccuring now that my memory is being jogged. I am comfortable enough to share it am about 80% sure it happened this way. As I said we spent time in the small bleacher area as well as the pool, might have been split up into groups by age or number, not sure, but I do remember sitting in the bleacher area. I sat next to a girl about my age and start talking to her. Had to be questions like who her brother was and what school she went to. The girl is polite and courteous and answers my questions but does not seem to want to be in a conversation. Her mother sitting next to her must realize that the girl is upcomfortable with the situation so she leans over and starts talking to me about my school or age or something just to make conversation and be friendly. This is something the mother did to reassure the girl that everything was ok and she did not have to be self concious about the situation. After that the girl was real friendly and we talked the rest of the times I was in the bleachers. Like I said, am pretty sure it happened this way but it was almost 50 yrs. ago and not an earth shattering event that would be a big part of my memory after all these years. I am really surprised I can remember that much.   regards  LEO
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #36 on: Dec 4th, 2006, 9:52pm »
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Thanks for your responses leo_c.  I find your last response amazing if your memory is indeed correct.
I know that I as a 13 year old in that same era could never have sat nude next to a dressed girl my age and have attempted an ordinary conversation.  Certainly most kids that age have no interest in CFNM and would be incredibly embarrassed in your position.  I was raised in a modest household with no sisters and it would have blown my mind.  I know it's easier in a group of nude guys, but sitting next to a girl my age on my own would be unimaginable.
Did you come from an environment of family nudity that you could deal with this so easily?  Anyone else find this extraordinary?
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #37 on: Dec 4th, 2006, 10:21pm »
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I had the very same reaction as CD.
 
I was 13 in the 40s. Yes, I guess I could have swum nude at the Y with other boys. Being shy about nakedness with other boys was being a bit cowardly and unmanly. Could I have swum with other boys in front of women and girls? Doubt it very much.
 
Could I have sat down naked next to a clothed girl my age and chatted? No way! And I don't think any boy that age where/when I lived could have done that. I find that very erotic to think about now, but then it would have been embarrassing beyond belief.
 
Like CD, my family didn't do nakedness in front of each other once past childhood. Maybe Leo's family was different?
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #38 on: Dec 5th, 2006, 9:52am »
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This happened close to 50 yrs. ago so I must point out that tere is no way I can be sure I am 100% accurate. As I said I am sure enough this is the way it was to be able to share it with you. I think the more you try to remember something the more off base you get and start thinking maby this or maby that. What I recalled was my first and maby most accurate memory.
 No the family did not pratice nudity. Think we were pretty much like everyone else. Was never taught there was something wrong with it though. dont even remember it being discussed. I was the only child so I had no brothers or sisters to learn from. I must have been a late bloomer as I knew boys and girls were different but dont remember giving it much thought. Guess the harmones had not kicked in yet and my mind was not into sex.  
 As I related months ago I swam nude rotunely at the old swimming holes up to about 10 so nude swimming at the Y was not anything out of the ordinary in my mind. I might have been self concious with women at the Y but the fact that most of the boys were also nude so it was a group thing. Might have been different if I was the only one. Dont remember any comments or giggles and the instructor carried on as things were normal. I remember he never covered up when one of the Y staff women were around, so if it ment nothing to him we just followded suit and thought nothing about it.  
 As for sitting next to the young girl, I was innocient to the situation and gave it no thought. Girls mature faster  than boys and are also taught to be modest so that might explain her  initial reaction. Maby she was told to give her brother privacy when at home, dont really know. If I remember it was not a matter of going out of my way to sit next to her. There were other boys in the small bleacher area and I sat next to her out of convenience more  than wanting to start a conversation. I was young and thought nothing of the fact of being nude. Like I said, I was a late bloomer, might not have even started growing pubic hair at that time much less the difference between boys and girls.  
 I believe I am pretty accurate on my recollection. Really nothing sexual there, just happened.   regards  leo
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #39 on: Dec 5th, 2006, 11:21am »
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 CD and steve, now you have me concerned, not that I can do anything about it. I admit that I might have been a late bloomer but there were other boys my age there also. Maby I was a bit retarded. Think back though. Would this have been much of a concern to you at the age of 13? How about if you were 11 or 12? Did you have sisters that you were told to cover up in front of? I must admit I am preplexed when I hear on the news about an 8 and 10 year olds abuseing a 6 yr. old girl. I have to wonder what is on there minds at that age. I would have had no idea at that age, would have never considered it at 13. Think back before your harmones kicked in, would it have been that trumatic experience ?
 We were in a group of boys in a normal to us enviroment. Maby if someone started pointing out that we were nude and made a big deal out of it we would have become self concious but that was not the case. Every thing ws quite plesant and it was just anothere day for us. Am surprised no one else has had a similar experience like that of some sort. I thought nothing of sitting next to the girl. The fact that I was nude never entered my mind. After all she had already seen all of us, we were all right there. Could I  could not have grown up that different?  LEO
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #40 on: Dec 5th, 2006, 5:33pm »
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Leo
 
I have thought about your concern, and now realise that I have committed the classic error of projecting onto my 50s memories my 00s attitudes. I apologise for causing you concern and for making such a mistake. So let me try very hard (as you have been doing) to remember how it was and relate it to your story . . .
 
I think puberty kicked in for me around 12 (7th grade), but I wasn't that conscious of it, so maybe you "bloomed" a bit later than I. But I don't think my attitude towards being naked was changed all that much by puberty. In my family I was the youngest of four, but only my 17-year-old brother was still at home. I wasn't at that point naked in front of either him or my parents. I took showers at gym from 7th grade onwards with other boys and was naked in sports changing environments without giving it any thought. But both before and after puberty, I would have been very embarrassed to be so in front of girls.
 
The overriding factor - then as now - was . what was custom and practice at the time If all the other boys swam nude, then I would have swum nude: you didn't make a big issue about something that wasn't a big issue. The only thing that weakens your case a bit is the fact that the instructor that day asked you if you had suits. That says to me that it wasn't quite as cut-and-dried as you suggest and that there was some degree of sensitivity among the organisers about the boys' nudity.
 
However, once the question had been addressed and you all decided to go ahead and swim nude, then my "custom and practice" argument comes into play. Your nudity was accepted by all and it became a non-issue. Since you were all sitting on the bleachers among the clothed observers, it was natural to chat with them. Also, as you say, they'd already seen you nude anyway, so what was the big deal?
 
Therefore, trying as hard as I can to really put myself in your 50s shoes (except you weren't wearing any on this occasion Grin), I now concede that I would probably have reacted the same as you - it wasn't an issue.
 
ON EDIT:  
 
What I forgot to point out above is the most important role that adults played in influencing our attitudes to our nudity. In the 40s and 50s by and large we accepted adult wisdom and didn't question it. So, for example, if adults in the form of the YMCA management, or swimming instructors or parents by their words, attitudes and actions, gave their approval to boys swimming nude, then it was OK and no longer an issue. In your interesting story, once the instructor said it was OK for you to swim in the nude, then you and everyone else were comfortable with it and didn't question it. Once the mother started chatting with you, then the daughter relaxed and chatted too.
 
In today's world, where young people are more inclined to question authority and demand their own way, this no longer applies, and that may explain why some younger readers of this topic even question that nude swimming ever happened. They can't believe that we did as we were told, we accepted what adults said as true and trustworthy and didn't question it.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #41 on: Dec 5th, 2006, 11:04pm »
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Leo-C
 
Thanks for the clarification. I'm glad the instructor didn't force you to swim nude that day. However, neither I nor most any boy I knew from ages 10-13 would have been willing to swim nude in front of mothers, and especially not in front of girls close to our age! Hormones kicking in or not was beside the point-we would have been too embarassed to do it!
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #42 on: Dec 6th, 2006, 11:03am »
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Thank you for your reply. Yes you have to go back and put your mind in how you felt at that age. I pointed out that the instructor asked if we had suits so I have to think the Y had at least some loose guide lines in place for women being present. Maby wear one if you want to, dont worry if you dont. Dont really know as this was just a one time event for me at least and I was not a regular Y swimmer. Dont remember us boys having any discussion on the matter, it was just swimming as usual. Might surmise that the boys who had suits felt more out of place than those of us nude, that how natural it was for us. We understood the instructor being covered, he was older and these were strange females not Y staff.
 Would also like to point out that the  fact that there were other nude boys there might have made a big difference.  Had I been the only one nude I probably would have felt a bit self concious but believe I would have been swimming anyway. Tough call as I am just quessing as the situation never came up. Nude swimming did not relate to sex or being offended in those days as it seems to be today. Ever seen the short movie clips on the history channel when they run a story of the CZAR of russia? All the males are nude jumping in the water. Have not seen it for awhile, maby they are required to use those blurry censoring covers now.  
 I am really surprised that no one here has any experience on being nude with aunts, cousins, friends, neighbors in a non sexual enviroment. As I related before, I swam nude for about a week with distant cousins at a farm when I was about 15. 2 other boys and maby 4 girls. Us boys nude, the girls covered as all girls did. was no big deal. If the other boys were covered and I the only one nude , it might have made a difference. Must have been one of those security in numbers things.  
 
 regards  LEO
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #43 on: Dec 6th, 2006, 4:47pm »
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Good info.  I know that I would've been horrified to swim nude in front of girls my own age at 11.  I was an early bloomer and started puberty shortly after my 11th birthday (I was 6'2" before I was 13).  So I would've stood out among the 11 year olds, having pubic hair and all.  Even if I didn't stand out I would've been horrified.  Then again, I was born in the 70s.
 
I grew up with a girl who was about a year younger than me, our parents were good friends.  We played doctor, both getting nude, until I was maybe 5.  That's when, for whatever reason, we felt it wasn't proper for us to be nude in front of each other.  I'm sure it was at our parents insisting.  I moved away and later saw her mother at my high school graduation.  I hadn't seen her or her daughter for about 3 years.  The daughter couldn't make the party and her mother teased me about how she could tell my guy friends about the "things", meaning playing nude doctor, that me and her used to do.  I told her to go ahead, then show them a picture of her daughter.  She had grown up to be a drop dead gorgeous blond with a sultry voice.  She didn't tell the guys, but they would've patted me on the back.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #44 on: Dec 7th, 2006, 5:15am »
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on Dec 1st, 2006, 11:13am, SteveH wrote:
My only experience of this was in September 1954 (to be exact). I was a freshman in a small men-only liberal arts college in upstate NY. Everyone had to pass a swimming test; those who didn't had to take swimming lessons until they could, or else they wouldn't get their degree (These days this may be just as unbelievable as nude swimming!). So a group of our class were told to report one evening to the swimming pool to take the test. There were maybe 30-40 of us.  
 

 
Surprise -- not only is existence of swim-test requirements for college graduation easily verifiable, but also while organized nude school swimming may be history, the swim-test requirement isn't.  Check out this story:
 
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2006/05/08/time_ to_sink_or_graduate/
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #45 on: Dec 7th, 2006, 7:53pm »
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An interesting post off voy forums which is on topic with some further thoughts.  The thread is concerned in part with the double standard of the past:
 
 
 
"I am a 59-year old woman and I remember the same things you do I imagine, especially the fact that boys back then were often nude, but we were not. I can remember my brothers and male cousins both swimming nude while my sister and I always wore suits, although sometimes at large public beaches my brothers wore suits. It was an odd difference in recollection I guess but it seemed natural at the time. I also saw my brothers, one older and one younger, in various states of undress and naked at times around our common, single bathroom. But they never saw my sister or me. And I saw my brothers on several occasions spanked by my mother which she always did bare. I do remember seeing both my brothers that way after puberty and noting that they were developing as men, and although it was quite "interesting" it was also quite "normal".
 
Now things have changed, as you say, and not for the better I fear. Boys seem to be as ashamed of their bodies as we were back then, something it took a while for me when I was in my 20s and 30s to get over (and still am not fully over)."
 
http://voy.com/206801/131.html
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #46 on: Dec 7th, 2006, 10:44pm »
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To leo on 5th December.
 
I swim almost every day in our home pool and I swim nude.  My three sisters have all moved away from home but when they lived here and now, when they visit I still swim nude.  (see my earlier post)
 
The pool can easily be seen from the house and any morning, if my mother happens to look out she can see me.  On cleaning days the cleaning lady cleans the pool change room when I shower.
 
Naturally I wear costumes away from home and generally when we have guests but there are exceptions and a few relatives and friends have seen me swim in the nude.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #47 on: Dec 8th, 2006, 11:57am »
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SteveH, I neglected to respond to a point you made. I type with one finger and us the hunt / peck method so it take time and I forget all that I want to respond to. Your views of adult opinions and views affecting the way we felt on nudity or any thing for that matter is right on the money. In my case, growing up was mostly influienced by women.. My father was around but his influence really did not start until I was a teen. I was taught by nuns thru the 8th. grade. Boys and girls were kept semi seperate. Any thing regarding sex was never discussed but never bad mouthed either. Girls wore these uniform jumpers type uniforms so if they were developing into young ladies you never noticed it.  
 Male influence really did not come until I joined the boy scouts or little league or had male teachers in high school. Up to that time women were mostly the authorities and provided the influence. I am sure it was that way for most of us.  
 One more thing, I appreciate that no one started the denial or questioning my memory telling me things really did not happen as I recall when they were not there or maby even alive at the time. It take me time to type this stuff. Have decided I will relate my hospital stay this summer. No it wont be one of those " let me tell you about my operation" and will keep in on an awful lot of CFNM although it is all medical in nature and nothing errotic. Is medical stuff appropiate to this board if it is not really exciting?  thanks again  LEO
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #48 on: Dec 8th, 2006, 1:25pm »
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on Dec 7th, 2006, 10:44pm, BlinkyBill wrote:
To leo on 5th December.
 
I swim almost every day in our home pool and I swim nude.  My three sisters have all moved away from home but when they lived here and now, when they visit I still swim nude.  (see my earlier post)
 
The pool can easily be seen from the house and any morning, if my mother happens to look out she can see me.  On cleaning days the cleaning lady cleans the pool change room when I shower.
 
Naturally I wear costumes away from home and generally when we have guests but there are exceptions and a few relatives and friends have seen me swim in the nude.

 
Did your sisters swim nude also, or is this one of those double standards?
 
Leo, many of us enjoy hospital/non-erotic CFNM.  Super and I have posted our experiences, but you probably won't get a whole lot of feedback.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #49 on: Dec 8th, 2006, 5:16pm »
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I wonder how reliable our opinions are about how we "would have" reacted to doing something we would "never" have done.  It is something of a common rubric that, after about five minutes at a nudist camp, naturist gathering, or nude beach, one is apt to realize that he has almost forgotten that he is naked -- or something to that effect.  
 
At the beginning of seventh grade, the next "gym" period after the "coach" gave his lecture about how we were all to shower after each gym period and how we were not to hide in one of the toilet stalls to change our clothes, I distinctly recall that I dawdled in undressing only just long enough to observe that other boys were, in fact, undressing, too.  And, as long as I was in good company, that was the last that it mattered to me.  
 
Later that year, when I was (at a belated age, I would calculate) sent to the YMCA to try to learn how to swim (for my junior high school had no pool), I was taken aback to be told that I would not need swim trunks.  But, again, I waited only long enough to observe that other boys' bare asses were parading into the shower room before I followed, happily enough, considering the circumstances.  Again, that was the last that it mattered to me.  
 
So, there were no girls or women around, in either case -- though one day someone had neglected, the previous evening (an "open swim" night), to take away the sign hanging on the door from the showers into the pool that said:  "Women in Pool -- Wear Suits".  But if there had been women about one day, watching us swim clothed as God/nature intended, would it have mattered to me, after the first few minutes?  After no one had bothered to shout at us to return to the locker room and cover our collective decencies?  
 
At my current, advanced age, I rather think that, assuming that I was not alone and that we had some official permission, I would have enjoyed it quite a bit.  And, having survived that first few minutes without having any important body part fall off, I would suppose -- maybe -- I could have talked with a girl with no further trauma.  Well, the girl wouldn have had to speak to me first, regardless of my state of attire -- but that's just the way I was in those days, and still am to a certain extent.  
 
So, the bottom line to ponder is, once you're in the pool naked, in the company of all the other boys and with official permission -- indeed, requirement! -- does it really matter any more, after the first few minutes?  
 
Of course it would matter if the girls stormed in suddenly!  But that would just be the same "herd mentality" reaction of all the boys, collectively, as they had already accepted that swimming nude was acceptable, whenever it was "just boys".  At best, a "new" five minutes would have to begin, once everything had calmed down again.  
 
I expect that most of us who experienced nude swimming classes only remember with particular clarity the beginning of that first day -- unless there were some other, over-ridingly exciting development.  
 
But a few of you will disagree, and I am most interested in hearing the circumstances.  
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #50 on: Dec 9th, 2006, 12:10am »
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Crash, you certainaly  have hit the nail on the head. Your 5 min. reset time is right on the money. Sounds like you have actually experienced it.  LEO
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #51 on: Dec 9th, 2006, 6:06am »
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on Dec 8th, 2006, 5:16pm, Will_CRASH_Reuther wrote:
I wonder how reliable our opinions are about how we "would have" reacted to doing something we would "never" have done.  

 
I certainly have to agree -- in part.  That is because when I was that age I had a very different attitude about nudity than I do now; that is, I was very body-shy for much of my childhood.  If I had been in  that type of situation before age 16 or so,  knowing what my mindset was like at that time, I would have been in a great deal of difficulty.  On the other hand, by the time I was in college my attitude had changed quite a lot, to the point where I think that I might well have not only accepted but relished swimming nude at school (whether with females present or not.)
 
By the way, the fact that I felt body-shy at a young age does not mean that I empathize with those boys who act that way today.  My behavior back then is something I regret.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #52 on: Dec 9th, 2006, 3:08pm »
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A long well researched post off yahoo YMCA again:
 
 
 
As an earlier fellow wrote, some of it is made up. That's for sure. The YMCA was basically an all-male community organization delivering the Gospel through physical development - without over-playing the Gospel. Through-out the U.S., until about the mid-1980s, there was zero shame about men and boys being naked together whether bathing or swimming. It was totally acceptable socially and morally.
Up to about 1970 there was strict separation of boys and girls in activities outside the school classroom. Co-ed at YMCAs and Boys Clubs meant, “We let girls in the building.” It did NOT mean co-mingling of girls and boys, (or men and women), in activities. Girls swimming nude with boys would have been scandalous, immoral, intolerable and ruinous to the YMCA. Same in school pools. We typically think of the YMCA as a community service but each YMCA and Boys’ Club had a board of directors made up of the best businessmen in town. They took pride in keeping their YMCA or Boys’ Club financially strong and socially respected.
When YMCAs and Boys Clubs began offering swim lessons to girls, they did so by setting aside separate time blocks for women and girls. The reason was that most YMCAs or Boys Clubs had only one locker room and only one shower. These were used by those using the gym and by those using the pool. Males had to be excluded from the gym when girls were in the pool otherwise females and males could end up in the locker room and showers at the same time. Hence, separate admission times were usually set aside for females. The point is, the architecture made it difficult to schedule female activities until a separate bathing facility was installed for females (unless one existed for visiting teams.)
Up to about 1970, girls were discouraged from participating in athletic activities such as found at YMCAs. Women with muscles were socially repugnant. Likewise, athletics develops competitiveness. Competitiveness in women was socially repugnant. Therefore, because the demand was limited (by social constraints) , YMCAs and Boys’ Clubs did not have many offerings for swimming lessons or athletics.
That girls swam in suits at YMCAs, when they offered girls’ swim lessons, does NOT discredit that swim suit fibers clogged pool filters. As I pointed out in an earlier post from a public health manual, women and girls expected to be modest. (because of their socialization) , and so female shower facilities were provided and females were given “tank” suits to wear. That’s the “why.” These suits had minimal effect on pool filters because so few girls swam. As research into public health manuals on pool management has revealed, males swam nude for sanitation reasons since the suits could easily pollute the pools (the chlorination used until after WW II was marginally effective. I’ll write about what I’ve found on that, later.)
As for girls seeing boys naked when they were skinny dipping – absolutely it occurred. By NO stretch of the imagination was boys skinny dipping a secret! An embarrassed girl turning her head to avoid seeing skinny dipping boys was a staple of American humor illustrated in magazines and on post cards. Notice that no one told the boys to suit up. Girls were to not object. Until about the mid-1920s, many towns in water areas had an outdoor bathing area that would be observed by anyone traveling by (as an example, I have a picture post card of such an area in Susquehanna, PA, postmarked in 1910.) After the Civil War, towns along rivers began enacting ordinances that prohibited nude bathing in front of town. You could still bathe near town but you had to go up or down river.
Pictures of men and boys skinny dipping were a standard feature on the covers and in articles and advertisements of dozens of family-oriented magazines seen by millions of families into the 1960s. Boys naked, or girls naked (but separate) were a standard feature of bath tub ads. Photos and illustrations of boys skinny dipping were an icon of vigor, good health, optimism and summertime freedom and appeared on advertising handout calendars from banks, coal and ice companies, oil companies, bread companies, (Gold Bond), several breakfast food companies advertising in women’s magazines, summer underwear companies, soap companies. Girls embroidered napkins of boys skinny dipping. I have sheet music for the song about, “The Ole Swimming Hole,” from 1922. The cover shows boys skinny dipping. The words to the song talk about swimming nude and end with the boys getting their clothes tied in knots by passers by. So who do you think played the piano to that? Boys or girls? An
opening scene in the Disney family movie, Polly Anna, shows a naked boy swinging on a rope off a hillside down into a river by a railroad trestle as a passenger train rolls over the trestle above him. It was nationally known and socially accepted that men and boys swam naked when there were no girls present. However, girls did not swim nude with boys other than in rare situations.
 
 
Mothers being present. You don’t read too many posts about mothers being present and there are a couple of good reasons.
Most of the YMCA swimming recollections posted here are recollections posted by men who are part of the Baby Boom generation. The vast majority of the YMCAs and Boys’ Clubs that our generation swam at were built with only one locker room, one shower and often, NO visitors’ gallery or seating. Mothers would have had to walk through the locker room, through the shower and then stood along side the pool wall wearing high heel shoes on wet tile floors. Of course that did not happen.
Second, during this era mothers wanted their boys to become independent men. They wanted to cut the apron strings. No mother wanted to a “Mama’s boy,” or “sissy.” So they sent them off to the YMCA, Boys’ Club, Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts where they expected their boys to learn to get along with other boys, develop physically, learn skills men knew and develop the confidence to be strong, independent men under the guidance of older boys and men. They wouldn’t go inside with them other than to pick them up to take them home.
However, our mothers knew we swam naked in the outdoors and at the YMCA and Boys’ Club and occasionally with our Scout troops. Mothers were present in a few situations when we were swimming naked indoors at pools with visitors’ galleries or bleachers that could be reached by hallways or stairs located outside of locker rooms or showers. On the occasions when it occurred, it involved younger boys – generally age 12 or younger - and usually it was the mother waiting for her boy instead of sitting outside in her car in cold weather. Even if there was a sign on the pool door that read, “Boys Swim,” as was the case in the school pools where I often swam, if a mother came in and sat down to wait for her son, no one chased her out. I know mothers were present at a few swim meets when boys were swimming naked. Older boys wore suits.
This was no big deal. I can only speak for the area around southern Lake Michigan, but through the early 1960s, it was common for mothers to see their sons bathing, (as in taking a bath in a bath tub), through age 12. It tapered off as the boy neared graduation from 8th grade, (until which we were still considered boys.) As others have pointed out, we weren’t sexualized by retail marketers, femininsts, politicians or religious demogogues back during those years.
Nude swimming at most YMCAs ended by the mid-1970s. For example, here in Columbia, SC, it ended in 1974. Nude swimming ended in most high schools by the mid-1980s.
There is quite a bit of credible evidence that women in swim suits occassionally taught younger boys swimming naked at YMCAs. Another researcher has suggested this was related to the shortage of men during WW II. YMCA archives have become available in the past few years that may further document this. It would have been no different than an older baby sitter seeing us during a bath. At that age, if our parents accepted it, then such a women would have simply been another teacher.
There were never any female lifeguards watching over nude males at YMCAs.
The boy-girl naked swimming photographs posted to this group are either European or photo-shopped. It just was not a U.S. experience. There used to be two photos in this group's gallery that showed one photo before photo-shopping and one after photo-shop alteration. What can be done is mind-boggling. That's why I only pay attention to photos in credible archives or sources that were published or postmarked, as I do my research.
Swimming naked was not a sexual experience for us boys. It was play time. We were kids.
David
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #53 on: Dec 9th, 2006, 4:22pm »
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My personal summation of this topic:
Was CFNM swimming done?  Yes, it was common rurally and occurred rarely at YMCAs and other venues up to the 50's.
Was there ever anything sexual about it?  Never, not for the guys.  In fact I am convinced that the hyper-sexualization of our modern society is the major factor that killed it.  Women were thought to be nurturers and caregivers and certainly to have no sexual thoughts about boys.  And their daughters needed training to achieve the same status.  So it was OK for women and girls to see boys nude.  Did girls get excited by this?  Many did, but they were silent about it.  They would have been considered sluts if they talked about it.  But our society now recognizes the truth, and because of this CFNM swimming is unacceptable.  I doubt that it will change in our lifetime.  Sorry guys.
 
The url of the prior post is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YMCAnaked/message/13910
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #54 on: Dec 10th, 2006, 2:02pm »
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Hey CD.....
 
Can't get there from here.  
 
The URL noted will not allow direct access unless you go through Yahoo, join a group, get approved, etc. and it all takes time for a two minute read.  
 
I realise it is a pain for some people, but try and contact someone else either here or locally who can post it openly so we can figure out what you are mentioning.  
 
Any way to redirect this URL such that it can be read at another site or here?
 
 
 
 
And, not all swimming pool experiences were at public locations, such as a YMCA. I lived in small desert community for years, we did not even know of such places then. I may have to jot down my (our) experiences is back when out in the sticks and let everyone read that.
 
 
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #55 on: Dec 11th, 2006, 12:52am »
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on Dec 10th, 2006, 2:02pm, BillBulloney wrote:
Hey CD.....
 
Can't get there from here.  
 
The URL noted will not allow direct access unless you go through Yahoo, join a group, get approved, etc. and it all takes time for a two minute read.  
 
I realise it is a pain for some people, but try and contact someone else either here or locally who can post it openly so we can figure out what you are mentioning.  
 
Any way to redirect this URL such that it can be read at another site or here?
 
Bill

 
Bill, the entire quote is in the post prior to that.  Yes, to go to the site, you have to join the yahoo group.  But there isn't a coherent thread to follow on this topic so you've read it all.  Only join the group if you want to drudge through 13000 posts, mostly repetitive and too many only of interest to gays.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #56 on: Dec 12th, 2006, 1:35am »
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C5, you wanted to know this.  Here is a quote from the same guy who did the long extensive post from Yahoo above.  I never heard it before.
 
 
"The Illinois circular also explains why at some schools such as Skokie High School, girls did swim nude. It was the most hygienic way to run a pool and was completely in line with the Illinois circular."
 
The url is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YMCAnaked/message/12808  
Once again, you need to belong to YMCA naked group on yahoo to access it.  I'll post the whole quote if anyone wants it, but it is mostly about pools and sanitation.  It includes details from Illinois published public health manuals of the time.
 
If true this a surprise to me.  As I stated before I grew up in Chicago and met people who went to Skokie, a suburb.  They sure never mentioned it, but then again, it wasn't a big deal then that would have come up routinely.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #57 on: Dec 12th, 2006, 12:56pm »
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Thanks for that!  It would seem to make sense that if it were more sanitary for the boys it would also be for the girls.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Skokie have a large Jewish population?  Any chance that might have had an influence on the school's policy?
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #58 on: Dec 12th, 2006, 4:10pm »
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on Dec 12th, 2006, 12:56pm, C5 wrote:
Thanks for that!  It would seem to make sense that if it were more sanitary for the boys it would also be for the girls.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Skokie have a large Jewish population?  Any chance that might have had an influence on the school's policy?

 
Yes Skokie at least had a large Jewish population, but I don't think they viewed or treated nudity any different from any other middle class population.  If anything likely be more modest.
 
P.S.
c5, just got a personal communication from the same guy and it gives full info.  I'd be a little skeptical of his explanation concerning the Jewish population.  Yeah Europeans are freer with nudity than we are, but mostly Scandinavians and Germans.  Never met any eastern European Jews who were.  This guy though has traveled around the country researching this, and you won't get a better source:
 
I worked at AT&T Long Lines, in what was called the Chicago Video Pool, working on portable microwave equipment. This was in 1979. I worked with a fellow named Ed. We were the same age.  He took the train home each day to Skokie and I took the train home each day elsewhere. Ed had been born and raised in Skokie, married and still lived there. On several occassions we discussed our high school years as we worked together and this included our swimming experiences in school. Off-handedly he also told me about the girls swimming naked in the first two years of high school as well as the boys. Ed would have been involved in this in the early to mid-1960s. I remember being surprised and asking if he'd ever seen them. He told me the doors had enough opening when closed that you could see the people swimming. Sometimes they peeked at the boys and sometimes the boys peeked at them. I also recall him telling me it was no big secret, that everyone knew they were going to swim naked. Erwin was always honest, he was not given to bragging or exaggerating so I've I never doubted this anecdote. I left AT&T in 1980 to take another engineering job and haven't talked with Ed since then.
 
As you're probably aware, Skokie is heavily Jewish and had been at the time and before. Thousands of Jewish refugees from Europe settled in Skokie after WW II. As a result, during the era Ed was relating, there would have been heavy Euopean influence. In my mind, that helps explain why the local culture would accept girls swimming naked. Additionally, it was ILL Dept of Public Health policy that nude swimming was to be encouraged for pool sanitation reasons. I've stated the document in an earlier post.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #59 on: Dec 12th, 2006, 8:23pm »
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Nice to see that that poster is back; he had announced plans to research, many moons ago, and then disappeared.
 
Regarding sanitation, the principal problem is fecal coliform bacteria, and while that can be reduced to one sylable, I won't. That's the reason why even when nude swimming went by the boards, you still got the "nude shower required before swimming" signs.
 
Also on sanitation, as has been pointed out here, until the polio vaccine there was widespread and justified dread of disease spread in public places like swimming pools. Part of the change in pool attire is due to touchy-feely psycho-social factors,  but another reason for enforcing any health recommendation in those days (and this was such a recommendation) is simply clear and present danger.
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #60 on: Dec 13th, 2006, 2:48am »
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I'm still astonished it's necessary to provide documentary evidence and cite sources to prove this practice existed.
I suppose it's a combination of the belief there was no nudity or sex till the current generation (there's also a belief it was prevalent till recently) and the notion that it's too good to be true.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #61 on: Dec 14th, 2006, 3:27pm »
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Have noticed here that what swimming is being mentioned most often applies only to special arena. I was brought up in a small desert community near Palm Springs Calif. and we did not have a Y.M.C.A. nor anything similar to them, but we did get to see one once. Instead we kids used a neighbor's swimming pool nearby to home.  
 
Our thing was to play one of those swimming games. It may be referred to under a different title elsewhere, but we called the game SUBMARINE. Object was for one team to swim from one end of pool to the other though an opposing team and not be sunk. In this swimming pool game the boys team lost more often than the girls. We were not of age to get into high school yet so the girls side wore big one piece swimming suits and the boys wore nothing. (Lengthy reasons here not mentioned)
 
But the boys were at one end swam out into the water and the girls would swim down, touch the bottom, then up and "Grab" onto a guy and pull him down deep enough that his head went under. Simple game? The surface swimmers could evade by going zig-zag, were not allowed to interfere nor hug the edge of the pool (coasting), and only could win by touching the opposite pool edge. If pulled down and sunk you then went back and started over again. Then when all of one team made it, you switched positions. Most all the boys got pulled down by the only thing a bare body had aiming down and it was easy enough for one female hand to grab also.  
 
The problem here was that the guys often got pooped out before the switch sides took place. We all had to make multiple attempts to get to the foreigh shore. The girls were as an average older than us boys by two years and better swimmers. When it was our turn, we jumped in to the pool touched bottom and then came up onto the girls swimming over us. Problem was those flat chested females wearing one piece suts had nothing to easily grab onto. Couldn't get hold of an edge to their suit from the bottom, their legs and arms where flailing, only other thing was their necks.  
 
We played this game for a number of years each summer from when I was about 8 until about 14 years old. My sister and her friends were always about 2-3 years older than us guys. I will write down the experiences and set forth at this forum in a few weeks in anyone wants a fuller follow up.  
 
 
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #62 on: Dec 15th, 2006, 2:14am »
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I'd certainly like to hear more.
 
One theme that continually comes up when someone asks "Why are young people so modest?" is that the greater wealth of the modern world provides more privacy. Go back eighty years, and school showers were important because many homes didn't have indoor bathrooms. Now, many homes have a bathroom for every bedroom.
 
Swimming pools with filters and chlorine are maybe a century old. Private pools as a commonplace, far less. There's an F. Scott Fitzgerald story set in Hollywood, where the main character is a screenwriter who lives next door to the studio producer. The President of the United States is out to LA for a visit, the producer takes him home, and the President admires, with a touch of envy, the screenwriter's swimming pool.  
 
So kids shower at home instead of school. But they also have pools at home. And swimming naked is all the things that drug czars claim about drugs: once you try it, it's hard to stop.
 
So yes, more home pool stories. Please. You've gotten your feet wet, now jump into the deep end!
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #63 on: Dec 18th, 2006, 3:35pm »
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BillBulloney's reference to the game he knew as "Submarine"--that might have had other names elsewhere--came to my mind over the weekend, in a blinding revelation that there are other games, such as "Naked Salad Bar" and "Human Ice Cream Sundae" in particular, that are actually the same game as each other, only using different foods.  I don't know why my brain had been blocking this particular realization for so long, but I must thank Bill for providing the catalyst for my new understanding.  
 
Similarly, I have been reminded of two games I encountered in my earliest adolescence, one of which was presented in a setting that might have led to a CFNM experience, save for who the chaperones were at that particular party.  The one was called "Blindfold"; the other, "Blanket."  The titles are deceptively simple, which is just the point.  In "Blindfold" we boys were sent to another room, while the girls prepared to play a big trick on us.  Unfortunately, the game was aborted when one of the boys admitted that he thought he realized what the trick was going to be.  Indeed, he had alerted the rest of us, and so nothing really interesting happened at that party, after all.  
 
It would have been about a year and a half later, at another party, when all were asked who of us not played "Blanket" before; those of us who admitted our ignorance were, again, sent to another room.  Interestingly, one of the prettiest girls at the party had NOT played the game before; while her best friend, who was one of the sexiest girls at the party, HAD.  Of course, my ignorance lay solely in the nomenclature, but a friend of mine had had the paranoid presence of mind to have denied his "virginity" in this sense, and thus, under false pretenses, got to participate in the voyeristic fun without the danger of the implicit practical consequences.  [Interesting side note:  I understand that new members who have formally been accepted but who blow off an initiation party, are not permitted to attend that party the next year, when they are upperclassmen themselves.]  
 
When my turn came, I was brought out into the party room again and put under the blanket in the center of the room.  Well, under either title it is a game you can only truly "win" if you know the "secret" but decide to play against the rules.  As soon as the challenge was put to me, I realized it was the same game I hadn't actually gotten to play before.  Again, though, it was a question of who the chaperones were.  In "Blindfold" the challenge is to take off something you're wearing that you weren't wearing when you got out of bed that morning; in "Blanket" the challenge is to take off the hottest thing you have on.  I will try not to belabor the obvious more than I already have.  
 
I actually did debate for a few moments, under that blanket, whether to feign ignorance and see whether my popularity among my peers might actually be enhanced by trying to discover how far it would have been allowed to go.  Indeed, I debated just long enough to be taunted with the jibe that I must be a pretty "cool" guy, after all.  But I was, really, just as timid about it as my friend who had avoided playing the game at all.  So I just lifted the blanket, the hottest thing I had on, and nominally "won" the game, without really winning anything at all!  
 
Incidentally, the "pretty" girl was, of course, saved for the last round of the game:  when given the challenge, she reacted with shock and outrage, understanding only that she was so pretty that the boys at the party would, quite naturally, want nothing better than to get her to remove as much clothing as possible.  And another girl, earlier in the game, had actually gone so far as to squirm out of her slip before she finally figured out the secret.  I also heard that a girl whom I did not know at the time and who was not at that party, had, at a girls' slumber party earlier in the school year, gone completely naked under the blanket, before she finally had to have the game explained to her!  
 
 
 
And so, Bill, lest I be constrained to suspect that your story is characterized by the latter three syllables of your screen name, I must insist that you make the effort to explain to us how it came to be that you desert kids were allowed to show yourselves off to those naughty little girls who had discovered how much fun it was to play so unfairly with your anatomies.  I understand that it will take some time to compose the story satisfactorily, for I often find myself in that situation as well.  But it is imperative that you not keep the rest of us in the dark for too much longer.  
 
-- "Crash"  
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #64 on: Dec 29th, 2006, 11:08am »
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CD, I have to comment that the information you posted is pretty accurate. Someone did their homework. Pretty much jibes with the memories of how thing were during my childhood. One thing I would like to comment on is that you said nude swimming was more of a rural thing that urban. Quite true. Some cities had municipal pools and if there were any rivers or streams around them they would be polluted. In a rural area, at least on the east coast, there were countless ponds and streams where one could walk or ride their bike to. Most city boys were never comfortable around water as a lot of them were restricted to an open fire hydrant where as the rural boys more or less lived at the swimming holes on those hot summer days.
  Also if you see references to small town pools, they were not really pools but small ponds that were located close to the center of town. That was in N.J. anyway.  regards  LEO C.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #65 on: Dec 29th, 2006, 2:20pm »
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So, anybody know someone that went to Skokie HS that can confirm the nude girls swimming?
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #66 on: Jan 1st, 2007, 4:14pm »
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Giving this subject an international flavor, I had friend telephone here just few hours ago. It was already new year in Norway and but was dark and not yet 2007 in the U.S.A. but he mentioned during a cruise of the Internet' looking for how the New Year was being celebrated around the globe. By accident he came upon some untitled modern rendition of a contest swimming event in which the men wore nothing and the females wore modern suits. He thought the scene out of place for today most events are attended by even younger persons. This got us to talking a bit about older times.
 
When he was a fast swimmer in the early 1960's in Norway if you wanted to join the International team, you had to prove yourself under the stopwatch at some big time event. A place were professional stopwatchs and timers were common. There weren't many of these but he thought he was fast enough to sign on to one and get a chance to represent Norway.  
 
In his country, records were kept from the turn of century for men and since late 1920's for women. Apparently men wore something when swimming for several years until someone analysed the suits and found that provided drag and slower stopwatch times. Then a couple fellows swam in nude and were quite a bit faster and set some official records not long afterwards.
 
At the contests he went to, if it was to be an officially timed event, in order to qualify for the right to try out to be on the International swim team, then you had to match or beat the record in same way it was set. No cheating by altering the situation. A few of the records were quite old having been set just after the turn of the century when men were the only International competitors and did not dress. As there wasn't a computer in Norway in the 1960's for recording swimming, if any young fellow wanted to best an old record and gain entrance to the International team he had to do it in same manner it was set. If the women wanted to best an old record, they too had to do it same way as it was set. Thus at the few biggie events held in Norway there was often a mixture of participants, competing in different events, for fast time in different classes. Some of records the guys were going after were quite old and at these trials events were nude for that is how the record was set. Since the ladies records were set when everyone was wearing a suit, then they had to wear one in order to set or equal a national record. No advantage or alterations to rules were permitted, and thus a contestant could not slim down and make for less resistance in the water by wearing a suit unless that is how the record was established. If the record was set wearing a suit, you then had to break it wearing one too.
 
At end of event, the new record setting winners were poised at the edge of pool for a picture. My friend is in one of the color photographs seen on the Internet, he being without a tooth (that his brother knocked out many years earlier). If six fellows and only one or two ladies bested the Norway record, they took their picture and put it into the newspaper sports section. He doesn't know about many of the events and how they were handled in other countries, but in Norway swimming nude at public events had nothing to do with fibres in filters, but records, fame and you could not cheat.  
 
 
Bill
 
 
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #67 on: Jan 3rd, 2007, 2:11am »
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Here's an authentic photo.
 
From eBay (so it's passed community standards censorhip) and from Guam (well, a U.S. territory, at any rate): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300051290618
 
Looks to me like there are a couple of girls, just to left of center on bridge.  
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #68 on: Jan 3rd, 2007, 2:26am »
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And while I'm at it, a 1914 YMCA book on natatoriums and such: http://cgi.ebay.com/1914-swimming-book-At-Home-in-Water-Corsan-HC-DJ-YMC A_W0QQitemZ150076430142QQihZ005QQcategoryZ73430QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
 
May well have an explanation of suits or lack thereof, though at 1914 it's about 20-30 years too old to be of great interest.
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #69 on: Jan 3rd, 2007, 6:30pm »
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Definitely girls in dresses watching.
No doubt just an innocent ordinary day for them though the same people who admire Paris and Britney today would doubtless be upset about this "child porn."
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #70 on: Jan 3rd, 2007, 11:13pm »
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No question, two girls are watching.
The most striking thing though about the pic to me is that at first glance it looks like the kid is diving in about 2 inches of water, a time honored way to make another quadriplegic.  Hopefully the kid is standing on a small hidden platform and the water is really much deeper.  Another kid looks like he is in at least somewhat deeper water.
Somewhere it was written that in some Asian cultures, perhaps it was in Nam, the inhabitants went to the stream to bathe as they had no running water, and both men and women would be together nude.  Strangely though mixed company nudity was completely forbidden under other circumstances.  In this pic it looks like they're just having fun, just as it should be.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #71 on: Jan 4th, 2007, 2:29am »
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It sounds plausible. I don't know much about SE Asia, but I have read some American Indian studies. In several cultures men wear penis sheaths -- and not much else. As long as they have them on they can swim and walk around otherwise nude; if they lose the sheath they are profoundly embarrassed.
This reminds me of a memoir by a white man who in the 1700s spent part of his youth with some Indians around the Great Lakes area. He and an Indian boy attended a meeting of several tribes and were approached by some girls from a different tribe; the Indian grabbed him and told him to hurry and get away because the girls of that tribe were always grabbing boys, pulling off their clothes, and handling their genitals.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #72 on: Jan 4th, 2007, 4:57pm »
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Quote:
I have read some American Indian studies. In several cultures men wear penis sheaths -- and not much else. As long as they have them on they can swim and walk around otherwise nude; if they lose the sheath they are profoundly embarrassed.

I've read something similar (and have the book here somewhere) of a tribe where the magic clothing was a twist of palm frond on the foreskin. It falls off, and they act like an American would on being caught without his pants.
 
Many years ago, when the Stroessner goverment was keeping Paraguay a century behind the times, I had occasion to visit a rural area. Bathing was done in the stream, men and women at different hours. I was on a bus that passed a pond full of teenage boys, and unlike Americans who would duck down to hide that they were nude, for the Paraguayan kids hands cupped over the crotch was adequate modesty.  
Quote:
Hopefully the kid is standing on a small hidden platform and the water is really much deeper.  Another kid looks like he is in at least somewhat deeper water.

I think he's on a concrete footing for the bridge piling.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #73 on: Jan 4th, 2007, 5:22pm »
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The auction closed out on that item and the image is no longer available.
 
I don't suppose anybody d/l'ed it for posterity?
 
If so, please post it here.
 
T/y.
 
on Jan 3rd, 2007, 2:11am, Caipora wrote:
Here's an authentic photo.
 
From eBay (so it's passed community standards censorhip) and from Guam (well, a U.S. territory, at any rate): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300051290618
 
Looks to me like there are a couple of girls, just to left of center on bridge.  
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #74 on: Jan 4th, 2007, 5:39pm »
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Quote:
The auction closed out on that item and the image is no longer available.

It's there, just scroll down the page.  
 
I dislike posting pictures with naked minors because it violates America's current primitive superstitions. eBay, however, has all sorts of procedures to certify Kosher.
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #75 on: Jan 4th, 2007, 6:36pm »
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on Jan 4th, 2007, 5:39pm, Caipora wrote:

It's there, just scroll down the page.  
 
I dislike posting pictures with naked minors because it violates America's current primitive superstitions. eBay, however, has all sorts of procedures to certify Kosher.
 
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That is so bizarre. I have about 150 years of family pictures and there are several of them from different eras. They took them to the drugstore or portrait studio and had them developed, no problem. It was innocent till lately.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #76 on: Jan 18th, 2007, 11:04am »
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Finally have the chance to comment on the pictures. Back in the 50s and early 60s, this was our version of a water park. The damn pictured looks awful high to be jumping off but I am sure the boys knew how deep it was at the bottom. Same for jumping off the bridge, its deep enough. The damns I swam at were no more than 25 ft. high with a gentle slope. We boys would sit on the top of the damn on hot july and august days and slide down to the bottom. No one wore suits as the damn was always coated with slippery green algi that would perminately stain anything we had on.  
 This was a boys world and the girls always wanted to hang around where the boys were having fun. Probably the same today. Girls would swim out and hang out with the boys and as in all cases would always have a suit on. We would sit on the top of the damn, boys nude and girls covered and occasionally slide down the damn. I dont remember any girls sliding down, it was a boy thing. Same as the picture of the boys jumping off the bridge. The girls want to hang around but I bet none of them jumped off the bridge.  
 I remember the bathing suits that the girls wore were always stained green from sitting on the damn. The boys bare buns would always rinse clean.  Innocient times even into the teen age years.  I think we have lost a lot as society progresses. Take pictures like that today and it might be considered child porn. Oh well !  LEO C
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #77 on: Jan 18th, 2007, 11:22am »
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Please! "Damn" is a curse word. "Dam" is a levee or barrier. They sound the same but are spelled differently (and probably were originally pronounced differently).
 
But I liked your post.  
It seems the people who claimed to want openness and freedom have made people embarrassed and secretive. Probably why some today find such things hard to believe.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #78 on: Mar 17th, 2007, 1:35am »
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Something else from eBay. A post card from Latvia, this time:
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/Risque-Nude-Boy-in-the-Beach-Photo-PC-1921-Latvia_W0 QQitemZ160096218457QQcategoryZ4929QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
 
A beach scene with two boys, one about 3-5, the other maybe twice that.  Not only are the boys nude, but the girls seem to be wearing pinafores, making for a nice contrast.
 
The usual disclaimer: it's labeled a post card, so someone once thought it suitable for the public post; it's passed eBay's vetting; it's very very old; and it shows a public beach. That it is the highest priced of the vendor's wares, however, suggests that he thinks someone likes this sort of thing big time.  
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #79 on: Mar 17th, 2007, 11:17am »
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/thread.
(And if those pictures somehow disappear, I'll upload them to rapidshare or something.)
 
 
Just to add my own personal story to this thread.  I started high school in the early 1990s in Australia.  Up until my second year (aged 13), a female teacher supervised the boys changing rooms.  I moved house and high-school in my 3rd year and don't know if it continued beyond that.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #80 on: Mar 19th, 2007, 3:46pm »
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Would like to make a comment on the pictures just posted. Post card is old, who know how old, and foreign, however it could be some of us boys in the 50s at one of the old swimming holes or lakes. Was routine for us to swim nude thru maby our 10th year. We started covering up like the older boys as we approached adolecence.  
 Depending on which of many available swimming locations one would walk or ride our bikes to, an awful lot of friends mothers, sisters as well as neighbors and female classmates would witness young boys nude on a daily basis during the summer. There was nothing sexual about our nudity and we considered it normal. As I stated awhile back, all females regardless of age wore somekind of bathing suit, fortunately less than the young girls in the photo. While young boys were not expected to cover up, it seems to have been a requirement for females. Would not suprise me at all if there were not a lot of old family albums out there with similar pictures.  
 As for the 2 showing some kind of water sport team photos, does not appear as to be anyone concerned with the nude male members. I was never on any kind of water team growing up so I just have to guess this is the way it was. Top photo looks like it was for somekind of yearbook as the males are positioned to be discretely covered for general publication. Certainally could not do that today. Someone would be complaining of sexual harrasement or child sexual abuse. As inocient as things were and are, lots of people are out there spring loaded to be offended by something. We sure have civilized our selves havent we?  Please excuse any spelling mistakes. LEO C.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #81 on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 8:45pm »
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Great Photos!!!!!
 
I thought this may be true. I did not live back then but I have studied society and realize they change.
I figured that it was true.
 
These photos I think prove all the nay-sayers wrong.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #82 on: Mar 22nd, 2007, 9:29pm »
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I agree with leo_c that the pictures are old, the bottom one very old and probably foreign.  They are certainly not from the 90's as more or less implied. They are nice pics though.  It'd be great to have their history.
Though there is lots of evidence that CFNM swimming occurred in this country, there is little documentation that CFNM swim meets occurred, though it was certainly possible in the early years of last century.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #83 on: Mar 23rd, 2007, 12:15am »
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In the top picture one man has longer hair than anyone in the 50s likely would and another has a beard. The latter wasn't altogether unlikely in the 50s. The girls' swimsuits appear to be 50s style, though the men's hairstyles could be from the 70s.
 
The lower picture certainly dates from about that time or before.
 
At least this is photographic evidence for what we know happened.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #84 on: Mar 23rd, 2007, 11:23am »
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cd:  I didn't imply those pics were from the 90s.  The example I gave was because I attended high school in the 90s.
 
Given the picture quality and hair/clothing styles in the pics I'd date the first one in the 1970s, and the second one in the 1940s or 50s.
 
I don't think it's unrealistic that they were taken in the USA, UK or any other predominantly caucasian society from those eras.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #85 on: Mar 23rd, 2007, 5:00pm »
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on Mar 23rd, 2007, 11:23am, Ayanami wrote:
cd:  I didn't imply those pics were from the 90s.  The example I gave was because I attended high school in the 90s.
 
Given the picture quality and hair/clothing styles in the pics I'd date the first one in the 1970s, and the second one in the 1940s or 50s.
 
I don't think it's unrealistic that they were taken in the USA, UK or any other predominantly caucasian society from those eras.

 
No worry. I wasn't trying to imply that anyone was trying to imply the pictures were from the 90s!
I was looking at them with an eye that remembers the decades from late 40s till now and applying that experience.
The pictures seem authentic to me and probably are from the US or Canada.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #86 on: Mar 23rd, 2007, 8:45pm »
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I would date the last two photos to Photoshop.  
 
I'm not one of those experts who can spot Photoshop artifacts in the pixels, but I've never seen a photo like this tied to an original source.
 
PC makes an interesting point about "predominantly Caucasian society". I recall one swim at the YMCA, when about seven years old, where the lifeguards debated whether or not to have us remove our suits (they settled on suits). There were about sixty kids, I think, and exactly one black, wearing a bathing suit about six sizes too big. To my immature mind that suit and his skin color said "poor". There is indeed an egalitarian aspect to swimming in the one suit everyone has, where any variations are due not to Mammon but to God.
 
I've seen a few old posed swim class pictures, the kind local papers used to print, where the kids who have suits are wearing them and those who don't are wrapped in towels. In those as well the black faces are rare.  
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #87 on: Mar 24th, 2007, 1:38am »
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If they are old pictures the mix of races would depend on where the pictures were taken and what institution they were taken at.
Some places had few black people and many had no formal segregation (not that it didn't happen).
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #88 on: Mar 24th, 2007, 10:40am »
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on Mar 23rd, 2007, 8:45pm, Caipora wrote:
I would date the last two photos to Photoshop.  
 
I'm not one of those experts who can spot Photoshop artifacts in the pixels, but I've never seen a photo like this tied to an original source.
 
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I've always wondered about that first, "high-school-yearbook" style picture, myself.  I mean, the fantasy is great!  And I wouldn't want to lose track of the picture, for anything!  
 
But the "proof" of the nudity is as scant as any boys' swimming briefs of that era, and it would only have taken attention to a very few spots to have altered an unintentionally provocative, though legitimate, yearbook shot into something a bit more than it really was.  
 
I have seen one or two yearbook photos where an "obscene finger gesture" was overlooked before printing!  And there is another rather blatantly fake "swim team" photo about, in which it has been pointed out that all five of the visible penises are absolutely identical!  
 
It's not at all beyond belief that a legitimate picture might have been printed in which the boys' swim briefs might have been all but hidden, giving rise to salacious speculations.  And I recall another, real-life example, in which exactly one of the boys' swim trunks was not visible to the camera!  But this one just would have been too easy to fake.  I only wish it were the truth!  
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #89 on: Mar 24th, 2007, 12:26pm »
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Yep, nobody ever took their clothes off before 1995. Their attitudes, though different from present, were identical to the present.
 
The secret is that the politically correct crew -- including all those who want to "liberate" all sexual "orientations" and behaviors -- are the current incarnation of repressive puritans. Normal 1950s persons were less rigid and repressed. They had specific, now rightfully rejected attitudes about race and some sexual behavior, but they were more realistic and open...
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #90 on: Mar 30th, 2007, 9:23am »
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Would like to add a bit of my take on the pictures. As others have suggested, the top picture is probably from the 70s. In my memory, womens one piece suits were dark in color with no flowers or decorations in the 50s. Lots of suits even had small skirts or at least a small bit of material over the crotch area as in the ones worn in pagent swim suit competition. I remember the church bad mouthing anything that had a bare midriff or 2 piece suits in the 50s. Also facial hair did not really come into style until the late 60s or into the 70s. So I would say it is a college team picture from the 70s.  
 Have no idea if the picture is doctored or real. Seems to me it would be a lot of trouble to alter it and for what purpose! Pretty young women though. Also the fact that they all have their right leg crossed over the left shows that whoever set the picture up took their time and knew what they were doing.  
 The lower picture is probably from the 50s. Could be a candid shot. Looks as if every one feels natural and not the least bit self concious. From my experience at the old swimming holes, you get use to the situation real quick.  regards  LEO C.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #91 on: Mar 30th, 2007, 10:51am »
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on Mar 30th, 2007, 9:23am, leo_c wrote:
Would like to add a bit of my take on the pictures. As others have suggested, the top picture is probably from the 70s. In my memory, womens one piece suits were dark in color with no flowers or decorations in the 50s. Lots of suits even had small skirts or at least a small bit of material over the crotch area as in the ones worn in pagent swim suit competition. I remember the church bad mouthing anything that had a bare midriff or 2 piece suits in the 50s. Also facial hair did not really come into style until the late 60s or into the 70s. So I would say it is a college team picture from the 70s.  
 Have no idea if the picture is doctored or real. Seems to me it would be a lot of trouble to alter it and for what purpose! Pretty young women though. Also the fact that they all have their right leg crossed over the left shows that whoever set the picture up took their time and knew what they were doing.  
 The lower picture is probably from the 50s. Could be a candid shot. Looks as if every one feels natural and not the least bit self concious. From my experience at the old swimming holes, you get use to the situation real quick.  regards  LEO C.

 
Right. I didn't remember that about women's swimsuits, but now that you mention it I do. In the upper photo a couple of the men's hair is simply too long for the 1950s, but not the undisciplned and even effeminateish style of the late 60s. That places it in the 70s. (In the 50s guys who looked like that would have been physically assaulted except in a few places like LA or New York City.)
 
People would have been relaxed in the situation of the lower photo because it was simply the custom. Nobody made anything openly sexual about it, whatever their private thoughts.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #92 on: Mar 30th, 2007, 6:13pm »
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My take on the pictures is close to that of Leo C. and PC. But I think both pics are a bit earlier. I think one is genuine and the other more likely to be have been doctored.
 
I suspect the top picture is probably late 60s, or maybe 1970 at the latest. I base this on the bathiing suits the girls are wearing, and their hair. By the time the mid-70s rolled around girls had longer hair, and more revealing suits. Those suits really look like mid or even early sixties suits. And men had mustaches commonly, in the Northeast at least, from the mid-60s on. I had a beard when I was in college in the late 50s/early 60s. Of the two pics this is the most likely to be partly fake, I think. If you look closely the suggestion that the men are nude comes from just a few men, and there are just a couple of guys, one really, that show pubic hair. So if one were to doctor a photo I would thnk this would not be too hard to change in an otherwise true picture. I don't know Photoshop all that well, but to the extent I do it would seem feasible.
 
The other picture I think is late 40s or conceivably even the very late 30s. I base this on the how the one guy who has clothes on is dressed (portly, high vested, broad tie, hair slicked back), the haircuts of the men and especially the women, and the navy, likely wool, tank suits of the women -- they just scream a late 30s to mid or late 40s style. By the time the 50s rolled around, the war was over and more colorful suits were in for the women. So I suspect this picture is genuine.
 
I have posted by the way elsewhere on this board the fact that I took swimming lessons at Y's around Boston in the late 1940s and early 50s. We boys swam nude. Two of my instructor/lifeguards during that period were women who wore suits (of course). One of them, an older woman and the mother of a boy I knew, wore a suit somewhat like the ones those women are wearing in the second picture -- dark, tank suits with straps over the shoulder broad enough to give the suit the look of having armholes, rather than the more revealing "spaghetti" straps of later years, as you can see in the top picture.  The other instructor, a much younger woman and probably in her early 20s at the time was named Noreen and had a yellow tank suit, sort of a colorful rendition closer to the suits worn by the women in the top picture in style of the straps, but not made of wool/cotton flannel and therefore thick, but rather a thinner, more clingy material. I remember this vividly because the seat of the suit was cut a bit differently than earlier suits such that you got a strong suggestion of both cheeks in her ass when she walked, as many women's suits do today. I particularly recall her walking along the edge of the pool and slipping a finger from each hand into the back of the suit to pull it out from the crack of her ass. And she had a beautiful ass I might add, in fact it could well be the first time I saw in person the outlines of a really good female bottom. This experience happened definitely in 1951.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #93 on: Mar 30th, 2007, 9:21pm »
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How old were you then Allan?
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #94 on: Mar 31st, 2007, 3:31am »
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C5,  
 
I was 11 in 1951. She, Noreen, was the second female lifeguard/instructor I had. The other one, the older woman who wore as best I can remember navy blue tank suits (oddly full looking though, not terribly sexy) gave us lessons before her. (There may have been a third woman who acted as lifeguard for us, but I am not sure. I do remember women, mothers probably, in our locker room, riding herd on us as we undressed. You should keep in mind that although the War was over, the country was still using women in many job areas formerly filled by men, especially low paid ones like the Y...I have wondered several times if this fact was why so many women seemed to be running the boys' YMCA.) I would estimate the older woman lifeguarded/instructed us in 1948, 49 or so. She was the one who was the mother of my friend. She was not the least bit sexy to me. Just another female adult authority figure. Whether that was because she was a mother substitute or not I don't know. But Noreen, the younger one in the yellow suit a few years later, was sexy, but in a way that I did not then identify as sexy.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #95 on: Mar 31st, 2007, 4:57pm »
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Were you an early or late bloomer?  I was starting puberty at 11 and there's a good chance if an attractive 20 something woman's ass was somewhat identifiable in a swimsuit I would've gotten an erection.  Was this ever an issue with anyone?
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #96 on: Apr 1st, 2007, 9:14am »
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Yes, I was starting puberty at 11, too, C5. To be honest I do not recall any erection situations in the public area of the pool, but I vaguely recall having one in the locker room. I definitely found Noreen's ass erotic -- I do remember that, and have for many years. But back then it was a sort of blended set of feelings. We were all far less well informed about sex than kids who grew up more recently. Of course we had sexual feelings, but we did not have anything like the access to erotic and sex information that people who grew up just 15 or so years later, in the 1960s, did. At around the age of 11 I discovered masturbation. I did not even know what it was. If I had heard the term I did not associate what I was doing with that word, but I did think of Noreen's ass in that yellow bathing suit when I did it.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #97 on: Apr 2nd, 2007, 12:38pm »
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I enjoyed reading how the yellow seat of Noreen's bathing suit occupied space in your dreams (cough) then and memories now.  
 
I recall an instructor at the community swimming pool classes (outdoors, mixed sex, and clothes) whose swimming suit top would separate from her bosom when she leaned forward. Not far, but far enough, if you took care to stand in the right place. I took care.
 
I posted here about the women who clean the locker rooms at the swimming pool in my daughter's Catholic school, which goes from preschool thorough high school. There's a separate locker room for under-7, a single room for both sexes. It has a constant female supervisor, parents of both sexes in and out,  no privacy stalls, and no one sees a problem.  
 
The women call out before entering the boys'/men's locker room, and I spoke with both the middle aged and the early 20's cleaner. The boys pay no mind to their presence, or as the younger cleaner said, "Sometimes I'm embarrassed , but they never are."
 
So my present-day experience is not that far from your memories.  
 
I just wish I could find some documentation.
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #98 on: Apr 3rd, 2007, 2:12pm »
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That sounds like a cool school Caipora  Cool
 
In the early 1990s the girls and boys swim team in my high school practiced once a month at a local public swimming pool.  There were a lot of us, aged roughly 11-18 years old.  When we were naked, showering or changing clothes, we (the guys) were supervised by the female teacher and the girls were supervised by the male teacher.  The only reason I am unsure this practice continued is because I moved house and high school at 14, but I found it very liberating even at such an early age.
 
Alas I have no proof, here comes your doubts.
 
Also, am I the only 20-something on these forums?  All these personal accounts come from atleast thirty years ago.  Or maybe people are trying to stay on-topic too much with the YMCA talk...
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #99 on: Apr 3rd, 2007, 2:47pm »
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No personal experience with this, but I do have older brothers.
 
Both went to a high school that practiced nude swim classes for the boys (late 60's, early 70's).  I know the girls enjoyed this, because my female cousin went to the same high school and confirmed that she (and other) would peek through the foil covering the window.  Obviously someone removed/bent a small section of this covering.
 
I'm sure the girls got a much better education!
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #100 on: Apr 3rd, 2007, 3:18pm »
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on Apr 3rd, 2007, 2:12pm, Ayanami wrote:

 
In the early 1990s the girls and boys swim team in my high school practiced once a month at a local public swimming pool.  There were a lot of us, aged roughly 11-18 years old.  When we were naked, showering or changing clothes, we (the guys) were supervised by the female teacher and the girls were supervised by the male teacher.  The only reason I am unsure this practice continued is because I moved house and high school at 14, but I found it very liberating even at such an early age.
 
Alas I have no proof, here comes your doubts.
 
Also, am I the only 20-something on these forums?  All these personal accounts come from at least thirty years ago.  Or maybe people are trying to stay on-topic too much with the YMCA talk...

 
What country and/or region or you referring to Ayanami?
Personal accounts from the US are 30 years old because that's when nude mostly all male swimming disappeared in the US.  Males supervising naked girls in schools would cause an uproar in this country including protests and possible criminal action.
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #101 on: Apr 5th, 2007, 11:12am »
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I live in the UK now, but back then I lived in Melbourne, Australia.  My high school was Lilydale High School and we practised at a pool that - I think - was in a suburb called Ringwood.
 
on Apr 3rd, 2007, 3:18pm, cd wrote:
Males supervising naked girls in schools would cause an uproar in this country including protests and possible criminal action.

 
I'd never want to live in the USA.  Paranoia has removed your freedom.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #102 on: Apr 8th, 2007, 1:55am »
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I used to swim nude at the YMCA  and a mens club called the Friar's Club in the late '50's early 60's.  
 
There were no women present while swimming or at any other time for that matter as I recall, not even in the office.   Women had the YWCA's at the time but there was only one of those in town vs. 5 or 6 clubs for men.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #103 on: May 16th, 2007, 1:32pm »
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Hello, been awhile since I posted. Thought I would share some observations I have made over the years. Some are pretty obvious, others maby not.
 First off it looks like I do more CFNM in a month than others have done in years. Not braging, just an observation so I will share some thoughts. First thing that I would say is most important is to have a female with you. Does not matter what her age is or weather she is clothed, topless or nude. Just the fact of her being somewhere in the area makes other women more comfortable. Guess that fact is a no brainer.
 Next understand that 90% of women have no problem with male nudity as long as there are no sexual overtones. Older women seem to be much more tolerant although young females are very courious and will also be comfortable if they are with others there own age.  
 Males appear to be less tolerant why I dont know. Maby they feel threatened or feel they have to be protective. Perhaps they did not enjoy nude swimming as a youngster as I did or think nude males are automatically homosexuals. These same males will stand all day long and look at nude women.  I am just rambling and my thoughts are in no particular order.
 I would recommend you get yourselves a book called WORLD GUIDE TO NUDE BEACHES AND RESORTS. They are everywhere, most nude beaches are really clothing optional so you will encounter clothed women. When you encounter women and you are nude, do not draw attention to the fact that you are nude, they already have that figured out. Women usually walk the beach in pairs of 2 or 3. If there are males with them they are usually in a group behind the women. Let them make the first overture by smiling or waveing or returning a good morning or afternoon if you happen to be close to them picking up sheels or in the water. You would be very surprised the interesting conversations you can have with them and the fact of your nudity never comming up. Obviously it sure helps if you have a wife or girl friend near at the time, she can be fully clothed but it does apper to make people more comfortable, yourself included.
 Get use to being nude! Around the house or yard included. On at least 3 occasions now the local mail delivery lady has came to the yard to deliver an oversized item while I was nude. On the first occasion I excused my self and asked her not to be offended. She was not, smiled, exchanged small talk and she handed me the package. Since the first encounter I dont even bring up the fact of my nudity. The thing is you have to keep these encounters casual and innocient. Once again the fact that my wife is around makes things more creatable.  
 Join a naturist orgination, there are more around than you might realise, especially around the TAMPA area. I must warn you before hand that most groups will not tolerate overt sexual activities so if that is your thing, pass on that recommendation. Contrary to BRADS opinion on a long ago post , as a nudist you will oppertunities for CFNM in a non nude atmosphere if you have patience and dont push it, just let the occasion come naturally.
 My neighbors, up in years, know that I am nude quit often, mostly in the morning or after sundown and never indicated they have a problem with it. One no longer botheres to announce herself when she comes to our side of the houses. She is getting up in years and I think she must enjoy it as she sometimes sneaks a smile to the wife.  
 I could go on and on, just rambling right now. I will try to get my info into somekind of order and add more later.  regards  LEO C
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #104 on: May 26th, 2007, 9:52am »
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RADIO ALERT --- TODAY, SATURDAY MAY 26 --- 5:00 P.M. (EDT):  NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO:  ALL THINGS CONSIDERED:  
 
The blurb at the website [www.npr.org -- click on "All Things considered" and look about two-thirds of the way down on the right margin] only says:  
 
  • COMING UP:  
    May 26 · Heading to the public pool this Memorial Day weekend? Well, there's a curious history lurking beneath the waters. Many of America's changing social mores are reflected in the rules that have governed our swimming pools.


 
The audio clip/teaser I just heard featured a "knowledgable" sort of male voice, declaring that municipal swimming pools were built in order to attraction lower-economic-class boys who had been swimming naked.   I don't know what the actual report will be -- and, of course, the articles they promote in advance tend to be at the end of the hour! -- but it's bound to be relevant, one way or another, and may actually be ON-topic!  
 
For those of you who don't or can't catch it live, an audio clip should be available on the website late in the day tomorrow -- unless the holiday weekend delays them in putting the clip up.  
 
-- "Crash"  
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #105 on: Jun 1st, 2007, 12:48pm »
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Thought I would share some observations I made this memorial day weekend for anyone that cares. First the gulf was full of boats. Gas prices will not deture people from enjoying their boats. What is normally a relitavely secluded beach was full of people.  
 Cant get over how long the bathing suits that young males are now wearing. Have to be half way between the knees and ankles. Looks awful uncomfortable when wet. Might as well start wearing long trowsers. Fortunately females are wearing as little as possible until they get older and start losing their shape.  
 If there is a group of people walking down the beach, they will always be split up females first followed way behind by a group of guys. As I observed before, women no matter what their age do not appear to have any problem with male nudity. Of course there are rare exceptions but the majority will smile and say hello and even pause to pick up a few shells just to hang around. Women that appear to be 30 or older seem to be the most comfortable, those maby 18 to 30 will smile and joke among themselves and make comments. Those below 18 will be comfortable if they have an older person with them.  
 I do feel a bit uncomfortable or concerned if they are pre teens or early teens. Normally they appear to be embarised and looks straight ahead, a few will look and on rare occasions will just flat out stop and stare. Thats about the only time that I will feel uncomfortable. I prefer that they be with someone older.  
 The most plesant people to encounter are those approaching 60 or better. Younger people might be surprised at how well some older women have kept themselves and they appear to be proud of it. Might be hard for some younger guys to understand but wait until to get to your 60s and you will see what I am talking about. These older women absolutely have no problem with male nudity and smile and enjoy the encounters. Other people that are enjoyable are GERMAN tourist. Dont believe anything bothers them. Think it is we americans that have a lot of hang ups.
 Speaking of hang ups, what is it with the younger males today? They can certainly act like complete idiots when encountering nude people, male of female. Sometimes their female companions are embarised by there actions or comments and have to appoligize for them.  Hope I did not act like that when young. As I said women are much more comfortable around nude males
  That about all I can think of sharing today. LEO C
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again: College Meets, etc.
« Reply #106 on: Jun 2nd, 2007, 12:38pm »
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A few years ago, there was a photo in the alumni magazine of my college (a small liberal arts college in the Northeast) that showed a swim meet between my college's team and another in the same athletic conference. The date would have been sometime in the forties or fifties. Without revealing anything "graphic", the photo clearly demonstrated that the competitors were nude. The shot was quite artful: the swimmers could be seen diving in, but only from a distance and from a side angle which concealed their "dangly bits", as the British say. It was also blurry, since they were in motion. But they were definitely naked. In fact, from what I've heard, this was basically standard procedure at men's colleges at that time.
As for the presence of women in such a situation, however, it seems highly unlikely, bordering on impossible. While women might have been permitted to observe, say, grammar school boys (specifically, prepubescent boys) while they were naked in some situations, since the boys' nudity would have been considered "harmless", high school or college students or adult males at the Y would have been a totally different matter. And this had very little to do with any scruples on the men's part. Rather, women in those days were raised to be EXTREMELY modest, both about being seen and about what they saw. I remember an old episode of MASH, for instance, where Hot Lips (a nurse, no less) is massively offended by the sight of a jockstrap one of the guys has left lying around. We're not talking about the sight of a man in a jockstrap here, just the jock itself. Except for some slightly racy "rearview" photos of GI's showering or bathing in Life Magazine and the like, I suspect most women of that era had to wait for their wedding night or their first sexual encounter to see a man naked.
One of the reasons my college or the Y could have nude swimming was precisely the virtual absence of women. In those days, the only women on the campus of a men's college might have been a nurse, the wives of the faculty and a few secretaries in the offices of the administration. None of them were likely to stroll into the men's athletic facilities, especially the pool, anymore than a woman today would be likely to just show up in the men's lockerroom.
With that said, an interesting exception to all this would have been male skinnydippers. Before World War II, boys and even young men probably swam naked more often than they did in swimsuits, which were then considered a luxury. Nor did this happen only in remote rural swimming holes. Skinnydipping in urban settings was widely practiced, both here and in Europe. Thus, there are photographs of guys skinnydipping in the East River in New York, in Hyde Park in London, etc. These were all very public places, and any man or woman who cared to could have observed the swimmers very easily. Walt Whitman even has a poem about this called something like "The 13th Swimmer" where a girl watches a group of boys skinny dipping. I've often wondered if part of what made Sutton Place a fashionable address in New York might have been the fact that it overlooked a busy urban skinnydipping spot, near what is now the UN.  
Bottom line (so to speak, lol.): nude swimming at a school, a college or the Y was done in an all male environment. Skinnydipping, on the other hand, whether in the ol'swimming hole or the East River, was done in the open and with the very real possibility of being discreetly observed by interested members of the opposite sex.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again: College Meets, etc.
« Reply #107 on: Jun 2nd, 2007, 3:44pm »
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on Jun 2nd, 2007, 12:38pm, joeM wrote:
Rather, women in those days were raised to be EXTREMELY modest, both about being seen and about what they saw. I remember an old episode of MASH, for instance, where Hot Lips (a nurse, no less) is massively offended by the sight of a jockstrap one of the guys has left lying around. We're not talking about the sight of a man in a jockstrap here, just the jock itself. Except for some slightly racy "rearview" photos of GI's showering or bathing in Life Magazine and the like, I suspect most women of that era had to wait for their wedding night or their first sexual encounter to see a man naked.
 

 
Well JoeM I agree with what you've said as I've posted in this thread before, formal CFNM swimming was rare, but CFNM skinnydipping was not, especially in rural areas.
But I disagree with the quote above.  Women have always known what naked men looked like.  Most babysat while growing up and/or took care of younger brothers.  It wasn't so much that they weren't supposed to see a naked guy if it wasn't in a sexual setting, they weren't supposed to get a sexual kick out of it.  Women and girls were supposed to be mothers and nurturers, they weren't supposed to be sexually driven.  If they were obviously aroused they were considered immoral sluts.  So women always suppressed their feelings re male nudity.  It's a different world now.  I believe that the recognition of women/girls as fully sexual beings is what has made routine CFNM ( or NFNM) swimming a mostly disreputable activity today in the moral mainstream of America.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #108 on: Jun 2nd, 2007, 9:31pm »
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You're of course correct Rodney that there were ( and still are) huge variations in upbringing in this country and we can only talk about averages.
But I would still think that it was relatively unusual for a woman to grow up without ever taking care of young or early adolescent boys at some point in their teen years.  Certainly casual male nudity in homes was not common either.
I have seen reference to an actual study that claimed that the percentage of grammar school girls who have seen nude boys/men was several times higher than boys who have seen nude girls.  Unfortunately, the exact reference to this study was not given.
And CFNM skinny dipping in streams or home pools while never common was well recognized into the 50s or so.  It even made Ann Landers advice column from time to time.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #109 on: Jun 2nd, 2007, 9:45pm »
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Having not lived during the era that Rodney, cd, Leo, and others discuss, I can't comment authoritatively on the prevailing social attitudes of that time. Based on various accounts, it seems obvious that nude swimming did occur in various all-male contexts. But whether CFNM situations occurred seems more open to debate.  
 
A few thoughts:
 
1) It seems plausible to me that a few "accidental" CFNM situations did occur, such as the one discussed in this link: http://pb.vblogcentral.com/users/ozonetv/episode_13.MM/play.html
 
2) It make sense that CFNM would have been more likely in the context of "informal" skinny-dipping situations. But again, I wasn't alive then, so I can't say for sure.
 
3) While I don't think that backyard CFNM was totally implausible, I must admit to being somewhat skeptical of it. I can vaguely recall being allowed to skinny-dip in my backyard pool as a very young boy in the eraly 1980s, but I was too young to think anything of it at the time.
 
True or not, this is an interesting discussion that I've enjoyed reading.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #110 on: Jun 2nd, 2007, 10:46pm »
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Just to clarify things a bit, I in no way meant to imply that women of earlier times were unfamiliar with the basic facts of male anatomy before their marriages or first sexual experiences. I don't doubt that many, if not most, dressed and/or bathed younger siblings or children for whom they babysat. I was referring only to fully developed adult men, and the changes brought about by adolescense. Even before adolescence, there would clearly have come a time when any younger brother would have begun insisting on his privacy, at least in most families.  
The point about the vast variations in family behavior in this regard is quite valid, though the idea of fathers and brothers of the 1950's habitually strolling around the house in the buff seems somewhat unusual. But that's not to say it didn't happen.
One recent development that i think is rather strange is the disappearance of the communal shower in schools. Apparently, students simply refuse to use the school showers on the grounds that guys showering together is "gay." I'm only middle aged, and when I was in school, it was precisely the opposite, you were considered a pansy if you had any hesitation about taking a communal shower. And the coaches were quite adament that you must take a shower. They even used to post pictures in the lockerroom of horrible rashes and infections supposedly brought about by not showering. Now, apparently, they use the showers to store equipment. Maybe there's a concern about liability? "Jimmy touched me in the showers!" "Coach Smith looked at me while I was showering!" Anything can make for a lawsuit these days.
Contrast all that with the number of CFNM pictures on webshots of male college students who think it's hilarious to go to parties dressed in nothing but a thong or a jockstrap, or completely naked, and who have their picture taken that way with a smiling girl on each side, and you really have a revolution in mores. Guys now think it's "gay" to be naked in the men's lockerroom, but hilarious to be naked in a room full of coeds. Curiouser and curiouser...
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #111 on: Jun 2nd, 2007, 11:17pm »
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It's probably a response to the media overemphasis on gaygaygaygaygaygaygaygay....
 
It's one thing not to harass or persecute gay people and quite another to constantly harp on the theme and make it into a political matter.
 
The reason it didn't use to be of so much concern is that only a small number of people are gay. Because of the political use of gay people (most of whom don't seem to realize they are political tools) and the consequent emphasis people feel they have to go to extremes to prove they are tolerant but not gay.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #112 on: Jun 3rd, 2007, 11:50pm »
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Yes, the naturists are right. It is a learned behavior and in this country, at least, one that is being constantly modified by politics.
 
Politics are being constantly modified by idiots. Politics should be concerned with such things as regulating the money's value and supply and defending the country.
Customs should be sensible and reatively constant.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #113 on: Jun 4th, 2007, 12:25am »
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I find the posts of Rodney, PC, JoeM, James Dean, and PC to be quite interesting. My own experience involved having to first take showers in 8th Grade, in the communal setting. The gym teacher explained that we were all the same, and that if anybody felt that he was different, that he should let the coach know! We all overcame our inhibitions; after all, we were boys!
I always thought girls took showers in a communal setting as well. None of us had to take showers in gym again, until 12th Grade, both boys & girls. The high school locker room also had a communal shower.
It was this board which taught me that showers aren't taken in gym classes anymore. This was confirmed by my HS friend, who teaches here on Long Island. Athletic teams sometimes take showers, after games & practices.
The gym I go to has 3 individual showers. I take everything off, except my shower "flip flops", before going in the shower stall. My fantasy is for a girl, either gym patron or staff member, to walk in, as I enter or leave the shower. I would smile, and great her with a pleasant "hello"! I notice some guys cover up with a towel, or wear boxer shorts, while going into, or leaving the shower.
The "gay thing" never entered my mind; however, I wouldn't want to undress in front of gay men. If given a choice of being in a locker room with women, or all gay men, I would certainly choose the girls, so long as they accepted my presence!
I hope nobody considers this attitude to be "homophobic"; it's just an understandable inhibition. Remember, I don't normally feel the need to cover up in a men's locker room.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #114 on: Jun 4th, 2007, 1:43am »
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I think we've discussed this topic of disappearing showering in schools before.  If you join the Yahoo YMCAnaked group you can read about it endlessly.
 
But yes, as a kid in the 50s I showered with all the guys in my class.  It was mandatory and no one was concerned with it.  We also swam naked.  We never thought it was unusual; it was the only way we knew.
 
There is no doubt that communal showering is not done routinely anymore in many schools (though not all).  It is still usually done by sports teams.  But it is true that some schools no longer even have functioning showers.  They use it for storage.  Guys routinely slap on some deodorant and head back to classes.
If you belong to a health club or Y, it is obvious that many younger guys are uneasy about being nude, occasionally to the extent of changing under a towel like a girl or taking showers in shorts.  It's really quite ludicrous.  Some of this is very misplaced homophobia (So what if a gay guy sees you nude?) and much is just a culture of greatly increased modesty and privacy that most kids today have grown up with.  Most kids now grow up in larger houses, have their own bedroom and bathroom, and don't have to share cramped quarters with all their sibs and parents.  And some parents, especially mothers warn their kids that they shouldn't be exposed nude ever.
There are kids, usually older, who enjoy CFNM; this is not new, but it is certainly not the majority of high school kids who have become increasingly modest and prudish.  It is a sad commentary on our present culture when guys are embarrassed to be nude in front of other guys.  I don't know how much of this is due to a weak body image, Rodney is probably right about some of this.  But I think most of it is just related to fear of being seen naked.  We've worked up fear of pedophiles to a mass hysteria.  How likely is it to happen in a supervised school environment? It's hard for someone of my generation to understand the extreme modesty that many younger guys have in locker rooms today.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #115 on: Jun 4th, 2007, 10:57am »
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"Weak body image" is a catch-all term to justify any unhealthy behavior that neurotic people in authority want to encourage. Maybe the kid is fat, maybe he thinks his stuff is too small, maybe he's imitating the people around him to fit in.
 
Having been in school in the 50s and seen subsequent developments, I find it interesting that the same generation (mine) that thought it was healthy for everyone to take their clothes off now encourages extreme self-consciousness. Maybe this is an extreme misunderstanding of individual rights, but whatever it is it has led right back to where many started.
 
I don't see any way out of it constantly cycling through generations since it has gone on that I know of since some time in the 1800s. Whatever one does will seemingly lead by an apparent process of logic and legal precedent to the original conditions...
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #116 on: Jun 4th, 2007, 6:15pm »
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This discussion is about the oldest among CFNM officianados.  Stories range from plausible to the bizarre with few ever offering any photographic or historical proof to verify the accuracy of CFNM swimming stories at public schools or the Y.  However, that is why this is called a "story" board, and I still love reading them! Smiley
 
After reading thousands of stories and articles on nude swimming for males back then, I have come to the following thoughts:
 
-  Nude male swimming was not uncommon at the Y and in schools and gyms.  Although it was possibly due to the pool filtration issues, I believe it was more a matter of custom and the desire not to have wet stinky bathing suits getting mildew in gym lockers.
 
-  Women entering the pool area while the guys swam naked back then was no more acceptable or common than women today walking into male locker rooms...in fact, a female reporter walking into the men's locker room back then would probably have been viewed as immoral for her.  I've read the same stories you guys have wherein guys talk about about how families coming to watch swim meets with daughters and sisters watching the boys swim naked - I'm not saying this is false, but I've never seen anything on any website, news story or photo that has ever made such a thing believable (unless it was a clothng optional resort to begin with).
 
Of course, accidents happen, women accidently enter all-male areas, or, because of an emergency.
 
-  Women did peak into the swim areas of men, as I personally read tales of girls doing that at certain high schools written on school websites by these girls.   However, if caught, they got in trouble.
 
-  skinny dipping back then occurred a lot, maybe because urban sprawl had not yet provided the gyms and community facilities that abound today.   I'd imagine it still goes in rural areas today every bit as much as it did back then.  
 
As it pertains to communal showers in locker rooms for men, and, guys all walking around naked, frankly, I've never experienced it any other way, even today.  I'd be interested in knowing if high schools today have enclosed segrated areas where each guy can change and shower....given the low funding of our schools, I'd bet that's rare.  
 
If anyone has any verified stories that they can link us to where it was anything different PLEASE POST.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #117 on: Jun 5th, 2007, 2:07am »
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HELLO
 BRAD, not picking on you but have to ask just what you are looking for as proof. If females were present at the Y while boys were swimming nude, what kind of proof can there be other than my recolations which are now 50 yrs. ago. Have no reason to make this up, there was nothing sexual or exciting about it. One one accasion we boys were swimming nude while some mothers and sisters looked on. So what? No one ran home and got a camera, no one notified the newspapers, was not recorded in anyones diary. Was a non event! To boys no older than my 13 yrs. it was just another day of skinny dipping in a mostly male enviroment. And yes, female Y staff members were in the pool area on occasions. Ment nothing. Really, what kind of substantion can you expect from 50 yrs ago?
 A comment to JoeM, I related awhile ago on boys swimming nude in the east river. On the circle line cruise, they were pointed out, not that it was necessary, on the ride up the east river and the columbia university area. Was part of the trip around mahatten, drew some laughts and giggles, but dont remember anyone being offended.  
 BRAD, back to you. You are not going to find any real substantion on CFNM from back in the days when it took place. It really was not an important thing that would be recorded. Just have to rely on people memories such as mine.  regards leo c.  
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #118 on: Jun 5th, 2007, 2:33am »
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leo_C,
I do believe your recollections, but your situation had to be extremely rare. My father, who fought in WWII, swam nude at the New York City YMCA's, but he never saw any women present, be they swimmers, lifeguards, mothers, or sisters.  
In your situation, there may not have been anything overtly sexual, but I 'm sure the girls enjoyed the visual treats, and relished finding out what the boys they knew looked like. This female interest was kept low key, in keeping with the times.
One thing which puzzles me is why boys suddenly became modest when turning 14. A 13 year old is starting puberty; indeed this often happens at 12, or even 11. If 12 & 13 year old boys felt secure being nude in front of girls & mothers, why didn't this openness extend all the way to young adulthood?
Anyway, thanks for sharing your experiences with us!
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #119 on: Jun 5th, 2007, 9:48am »
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My original post on this site was to verify that boys swam nude at the Y. I thought it was pretty much a no brainer until I followed this site and realized how few people actually experienced that pratice. I can only guess that the readers who post are much younger than 50 or 60 and never experienced the pratice. Also there is probable to few people that go on this site and fewer that have anything to contribute.  
 Donald, you might be quite correct in saying my one event is an isolated incident, as there does not seem to be anyone with similar memories. Never thought that much about it. Again I want to point out that none of us were over 13 and the Y pool was an enviroment  where one was nude. The mothers and sisters might have got a subliminal charge out of the situation but all seemed normal to me. Was handeled very professionally and maturely so it left no real lasting impact on my memory. WOW, kind of exciting that I may have experienced something exceptional. Wish someone had tapped me on the shoulder and told me to better remember that day.  
 As for boys becoming more modest with age, dont have any idea why it happens. Had to be just part of growing up. In my case I reguarlly swam nude at the swimming holes up to about 10 yrs old. Dont remember being told to cover up but I did as the older boys did. Remember my first real bathing suit my mother got me. It was in the brief style that everyone wore at the time. Much to big, guess I was supposed to grow into it, and when it got wet the crotch are hung down to the point where it provided no coverage at all.  regards LEO C
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #120 on: Jun 5th, 2007, 2:20pm »
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Got to thinking about the change in male attitudes regarding nudity. Allow me to rambel for a few minutes. My father lived with his mother and brother in what is downtown JERSEY CITY. Was a very old apartment house probably went back to the early 1900s. It did have indoor plumbing and a real bathroom. My father mentioned a few times that the vacant lot across the street was once the location of a city bath house. I am sure it was just one big shower for men and one for women or maby men and women went on alternate days.  
 I stayed with him on occasions in the 50s. Even at that time there were still steam engines, chain drive MACKS, the ice man and the italian vegetable man with a horse drawn cart. Yes this was to 50s.
 Fast forward to the late 70s and a few blocks away. My cousin, her son and husband lived in what was called a cold water flat. There was a toilet and sink in a small room off the hallway on each floor shared by all the tenents on that floor. Each shotgun style appartment had a bath tub in the kitchen, covered by a removable counter top. If you wanted to bath you took the top off and filled the tub. Not much room for modesty in that situation. I am sure women were given privacy while bathing but males probably much less.
  Also all the factories had showers. You could see them when the buildings were torn down. They were a big white tile shower rooms. This was for the men to bath after work. No chance of modesty there. I never showered in high school. PE class was just a period that you showed up and threw a basketball around. Never got close to working up a sweat, it was a joke.  
 Wife grew up in WVa. She had running water but relates that family bath day was a matter of pulling out a big tub in the kitchen, heating water and the whole family taking turns bathing. Her father showered at the mine. She and her sisters were afforded some privacy but her brothers were not and did not expect any. Might be hard for a lot of people to believe but that the way it was. Oh yea, they also had outhouses.  
 Is it any wonder why mens attitudes have changed over the years? I am sure a lot of men have grown up in houses with 2 or 3 bath tubs. All the factories along with their showers are gone. It is just a matter of things evolving. As a youngster I swam nude in mixed company and it was natural. Things have evolved to where it is no longer done. I liked growing up when I did!  LEO C
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #121 on: Jun 5th, 2007, 2:36pm »
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what kind of proof can there be other than my recollections which are now 50 yrs. ago.

 
There's quite a bit of proof of boys swimming nude, and I've posted it here. Not especially hard to find, but I couldn't find it on the Internet, so I suppose no one looked.
 
I've heard of sociologists doing research using old Hollywood "B" movies. "B" films tended to be shot in real towns rather than on sets, and the camera caught all sorts of things no one thought of documenting.
 
I can suggest a couple of sources on women observers. The Boys' Clubs had a house organ, "Boys Club Service" full of all sorts of helpful articles for club managers, such as on durable doors for natatoriums, or how to run a swimming gymkhana. There may have been articles, especially during WWII, on what to do if all the men are at war and you only have female staff available.  
 
The YMCA National Council archives are at the University of Minnesota library. That too may have internal correspondence on the topic.
 
Keep in mind, too, that the YMCA is a national association of independent Ys. The rules that applied in New York may not have applied in Boston or Seattle. The social norms were different all over the country, just as accents were.  
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #122 on: Jun 5th, 2007, 6:37pm »
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The constant need to discuss this is why I started the topic based on a passing mention of boys swimming naked in downtown Cairo and asked anyone if they cared to refute it.
 
I still simply do not understand the strand of disbelief.  
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #123 on: Jun 5th, 2007, 11:19pm »
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CFNM swimming, though in backyard pools and not at the Y, was the subject of numerous letters to Ann Landers and Dear Abby when I was growing up. My recollection is that in just about all of these letters, the boys were either indifferent to the one-way nudity or enjoyed the experience---it was the mothers who had the problem with their sons going nude.

I too recall the Ann Landers letters. One statistic I do recall was a survey done in the Duluth public schools when considering ending boys-only nude swimming. Some small number of boys preferred swimming nude, a somewhat larger number liked suits, and the overwhelming majority was "don't care".  
 
Nude swimming was not a humiliation, it was a privilege of being boys.  
Quote:
I'm still looking to find one girls-watching-naked-boys-swimming-at-the-Y account in a venue that is NOT this board, or various and sundry CFNM Yahoo boards, or similar "fetish" sites.
You're looking in the wrong place. Try the library, try the old files at the local "Y", or the morgue of local newspapers with active YMCAs. You can find the relevant quotes from the American Public Health Association or the "Boys' Club Manual of Operations"on the Internet, but only because I typed them in.  
 
One of my motives in looking into the topic was exactly to gauge the relative effectiveness of the library and the Internet as news sources.  
 
That is slowly changing. I just looked at the LA Times, where I had researched something when that meant microfilm, and it's all online. I find  
 
"One day in 1975, when the streaking fad was at its peak. Foothill High School swimming Coach Tom DeLong walked on to the pool deck for practice and found his entire boys team doing laps in the nude, with swim trunks scattered atop the starting blocks."  
There are also fun sounding titles like "Nude Swimmers Make Waves at Cal State Fullerton"  
 
They seem to have Dear Abbey, too, going back decades.  
 
So perhaps a subscription to a major paper with all its back issues online would pay off, too.
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #124 on: Jun 5th, 2007, 11:35pm »
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http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/boston/access/588962242.html?dids=588962242: 588962242&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:AI&type=historic&date=Aug+17%2C+1891&author=&pub=Boston&edition=&startpage=3&desc=BOYS+HAVE+SOME+RIGHTS.
BOYS HAVE SOME RIGHTS.
That is What Those Who Bathe Believe. Soap is Useless Without Water With Water Soap is Superfiuous. BATHS IN CLAY PITS. Cambridge Lads Have to Take Their Dips Where They Can. WHERE NEWTONITES BATHE There is Police Protection and Provision for Life Saving. INTO THE "DRINK." Quniey Boys knwo where to go to Avoid Wearing Trunks. SOUTH BOSTON BATHERS. Not Many places where Lads Go Swimming in Nude State. SWIM ONCE A WEEK. Where Waltham Bathore Take Their Periodical "Dips: ' MALDEN HAS ONLY "SANDY." Therre Men and Boys Go to Cool Their Heated Hodies. NO ONE DISPLEASED. Passengers on Trains See the Boys swim off Wood Island. BATHS IN THE FUTRUE. Somerville Has made No Provision for Public Cleqnliness. Charlestown Boys Do Bathe.
 
Boston Daily Globe (1872-1922) - Boston, Mass.
Date: Aug 17, 1891
Document Types: article
Text Word Count: 2793
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #125 on: Jun 6th, 2007, 1:25am »
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Quote:
I'm still looking to find one girls-watching-naked-boys-swimming-at-the-Y account in a venue that is NOT this board, or various and sundry CFNM Yahoo boards, or similar "fetish" sites.

 
That's also why I posted the quote from the memoir: an adult female briefly noted watching boys swim naked in the middle of a huge city.
 
You can't go to 1955. You can look at photos and declare them faked. You can read an account and declare it a mere fantasy.
But you could get on a plane and go to Cairo...
 
Sorry, but some things like this are like the guys insisting the "horns" sign from my alma mater is a secret signal between members of the Oil Cartel and Yale's Skull & Bones about their Conspiracy to do this or that... I can't resist...
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #126 on: Jun 6th, 2007, 5:24am »
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Hey guys,  
 
First Rodney, thanks for differentiating the issue.  
 
There are a ton of articles, stories, etc., to be found that the real question isn't whether boys swam nude, but if there were any gym clubs or Ys where they did not.  I believe that during that period it was standard for boys to swim nude, but in an all male environment.
 
This was during a period of time when men pretty much ran everything and women were not encouraged to pursue higher level education.  Women suffrage had shown only a couple of decades whereby they were granted the right to vote.  
 
Further, this was during a period of time where the color of one's skin could restrict that person's rights.  All these concepts seem bizarre to us today, so it is not so hard to believe that men so controlled the use of public facilities for their own means that they could swim nude.  And they didn't have to worry about women being present as women weren't on equal standing and had no rights to use the same facilities.
 
Also, the first part of the last century was influenced by the Victorian period where the showing of flesh by both males and females was signficantly limited.  To go from that norm to 30 years later having CFNM situations being acceptable....I just can't buy it.
 
But although such articles, stories and the like clearly document that boys typically swam nude at their school pools or the local gym, I've never seen a single one that mentions females routinely being present; however, a lot discuss how women were prohibited from entering the swim areas (and it makes sense).
 
Please note - I'm not saying leo_c was wrong or made up the stories.   It would be wrong of me to say such - I don't know and neither does anyone else except leo_c - we should always give regulars that are credible (as is leo_c) the benefit of the doubt and simply enjoy their stories - I do!
 
And I wouldn't be surprised to read of  CFNM swimming accounts that did occur in Europe or certain latin countries with quite a different culture.  
All I'm saying is that given all the work and research that many have done on this matter for the past 15 years, we cannot find anything that would evidence that CFNM swimming programs were acceptable at any time or any where, but rather, that it was only NM at all times.  
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #127 on: Jun 6th, 2007, 9:57am »
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Goodmorning guys. When I suggested that real proof of CFNM that would satify skeptics would be hard to find I was refering to information that is readly available today. Maby old manuals from the Y or a boys club might address the issue but I think that is a long shot. I dont believe it would have been any item worth the print.  
 My experience at the Y was a one time deal in maby 4 yrs. of going there.  Ment so little that I just about remembered it till I started scanning this site. I stick by my opinion on the aviability of concrete information. It is just not there! You are goint to have to rely on peoples distant memories. One source untapped would be albums of old time B/W vacation photos, but you are not going to find them posted on the internet. Another source that sticks in my mine would be memores of the CIRCLE LINE cruise around mahattan. Lots of nude swimming in that dirty river back in the 50s but you only saw it for a minute, nothing up close and personal. One thing I did see mentioned was the info on LEVIATHAN.
 Keep it short, big german ship caught up in HOBOKEN at the start of WW 1. Crew were not prisoners but had to stay on the ship. Artical went on to tell how the crew would put on shows and band music and mentions they swam nude in the north river. No real information there but that about the only kind of info I think you will printed.
 When it came to nudity in print, the only ones that could get away with it was NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC.  Have to go, will be back rambling my thoughts again.  LEO C
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« Reply #128 on: Jun 6th, 2007, 12:50pm »
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....to not keep retyping this, I mean. I have posted several times on this subject swearing to all and sundry the truth of what I have said about my personal experiences. So rather than retype it I went back and found my earlier posts...Here are two that address the questions in this thread.  Believe them or not, as you wish, but they are both true. The second one by the way mentions a swimming hole called Sandy's. Another Sandy's is mentioned in the old Boston Globe article above, but the one I was referring to is a different one -- it was an old sand quarry on the Dedham-Boston line, right beside the train track that ran to the Bird's Hill Station. It is filled in now, and has a Home Depot sitting just about where it was. Sic transit gloria.
 
General / CFNM Stories and Discussion / Re: Old CFNM swimming again  
 Mar 30th, 2007, 6:13pm  
 
My take on the pictures is close to that of Leo C. and PC. But I think both pics are a bit earlier. I think one is genuine and the other more likely to be have been doctored.
 
I suspect the top picture is probably late 60s, or maybe 1970 at the latest. I base this on the bathiing suits the girls are wearing, and their hair. By the time the mid-70s rolled around girls had longer hair, and more revealing suits. Those suits really look like mid or even early sixties suits. And men had mustaches commonly, in the Northeast at least, from the mid-60s on. I had a beard when I was in college in the late 50s/early 60s. Of the two pics this is the most likely to be partly fake, I think. If you look closely the suggestion that the men are nude comes from just a few men, and there are just a couple of guys, one really, that show pubic hair. So if one were to doctor a photo I would thnk this would not be too hard to change in an otherwise true picture. I don't know Photoshop all that well, but to the extent I do it would seem feasible.
 
The other picture I think is late 40s or conceivably even the very late 30s. I base this on the how the one guy who has clothes on is dressed (portly, high vested, broad tie, hair slicked back), the haircuts of the men and especially the women, and the navy, likely wool, tank suits of the women -- they just scream a late 30s to mid or late 40s style. By the time the 50s rolled around, the war was over and more colorful suits were in for the women. So I suspect this picture is genuine.
 
I have posted by the way elsewhere on this board the fact that I took swimming lessons at Y's around Boston in the late 1940s and early 50s. We boys swam nude. Two of my instructor/lifeguards during that period were women who wore suits (of course). One of them, an older woman and the mother of a boy I knew, wore a suit somewhat like the ones those women are wearing in the second picture -- dark, tank suits with straps over the shoulder broad enough to give the suit the look of having armholes, rather than the more revealing "spaghetti" straps of later years, as you can see in the top picture.  The other instructor, a much younger woman and probably in her early 20s at the time was named Noreen and had a yellow tank suit, sort of a colorful rendition closer to the suits worn by the women in the top picture in style of the straps, but not made of wool/cotton flannel and therefore thick, but rather a thinner, more clingy material. I remember this vividly because the seat of the suit was cut a bit differently than earlier suits such that you got a strong suggestion of both cheeks in her ass when she walked, as many women's suits do today. I particularly recall her walking along the edge of the pool and slipping a finger from each hand into the back of the suit to pull it out from the crack of her ass. And she had a beautiful ass I might add, in fact it could well be the first time I saw in person the outlines of a really good female bottom. This experience happened definitely in 1951.
 
 
 
 General / CFNM Stories and Discussion / Re: clarifying nude swimming as a youth  
 Jun 21st, 2006, 1:31am  
 
Quote:
What irritates me is when people write in that girls were allowed to watch the boys nude at the Y.  It did not happen!  They never hired female lifeguards to supervise nude boys at the Y!  Boys swam nude in swim classes in the 50's.  Girls were not present and neither were any female teachers.
 
 
Youngren, you are wrong. And furthermore I have posted before on this board to counter your mistaken view on this subject. I grew up in and around Boston. I am 65, born in early 1941. I took swim lessons at the Y in the late 1940s, right after the war, and there were definitely two female lifeguard/instructors in suits supervising boys who swam nude. I was one of those boys. One of the women was a mother of a boy we knew (but he did not take class with us). The other woman was younger, probably in her late 20s, but I am not certain. This definitely happened. It was in the period of roughly 1947 to 1952 (there were male lifeguard/instructors during this period too).
 
On the other hand, you are correct, as far as I know at least, that there were no girls looking on when the boys swam nude. I can vaguely recall one of Ys I swam at having some sort of viewing seats but they were never occupied by girls or women or anyone else that I can recall.  
 
Also swimming nude was indeed common by boys. I used to regularly swim at a water filled former sand quarry called, appropriately enough, Sandy's. It was used by many boys, all of whom swam nude. On occasion a few girls would show up, but they never swam, suited or nude, and they were not very welcome. I can recall one time when some of the older boys ran out of the water and swung their dicks at the girls, to shock them. The girls laughed and ran away. There was also a commuter train track that ran by Sandy's. Sometimes when it did we boys would run out of the water and run up and down beside the tracks completely nude and sometimes swinging our dicks with the express intent of shocking the train riders, knowing full well that the train had at least four miles to travel before it got to a station and could, conceivably, report us to the police. Our motivation was not so much CFNM, and many if not most of the train riders were no doubt men, as it was just plain hell raising, but in the modest style of the mid 1950s.  
 
I did swim nude on a few occasions with other boys outside a Y environment when adult clothed women and/or suited girls were present or swam with us. In each case I can recall the girl was part of a family we, my family, were close to. In particular I remember visiting my mother's best college friend in NH. Their house was on a river and we swam there a least a few times. My mother's friend's kids were a few years older than me -- two boys and one girl. She wore a suit, we boys were nude. I clearly remember it for two reasons. Her brothers were past puberty and had much pubic hair, and were more developed than I was. And secondly I remember my mother asking me, cautiously, if I had any compunctions about swimming naked in those circumstances. I of course answered no, but in fact did feel a little self conscious, but did not want to admit it for fear I would not seem manly enough. This was probably in the early 1950s.
 
But most of the time back then that I swam in public with women and girls I wore a suit, as at a public beach, salt or fresh water. I cannot explain why it seemed natural to swim both ways, nude or suited depending on the circumstances, but it did. If I had to put a finger on the reason it would be that it depened on what my mother told me. If she said it was ok to swim nude, I swam nude. If she told me to be suited, I was suited.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #129 on: Jun 7th, 2007, 1:15am »
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The Boston Globe item from 1891 is merely a link and a headline. There are 2,793 words on Victorian attitudes towards boys swimming nude, often in the sight of female observers, for anyone who has $4.95 to spend and some way of paying it to the Globe.
 
I can't pay $4.95 online from here. People who live in the U.S. though mostly can't get fresh tomatoes year round. We each have our possibilities and limitations.
 
Regarding Allan's last comment, a couple of cases from my past. I was a timid kid. Would have died at the thought of being seen naked by a girl.  I was at the school pool one weekend, where there were free swim hours on Saturdays, mixed, with suits, in the same pool we had class in naked.  
 
Some kid's big sister came into the boys' locker room and hung about waiting for him afterwards. Timid or not, my immediate impulse was to drop my trousers; I only didn't do so because I had already showered, dried and half dressed. I even considered stripping and showering again. Not because I wanted to show off, but because she was invading our space.  Anywhere else I would have gone red, but in the right place for boys to be changing clothes I had no compunctions.
 
A friend of mine told me of a summer program where he and another boy were bathing nude in a lake when the girls suddenly turned up. My friend sat down for modesty, the other fellow, knee-deep in lake, paid no mind. In his town, it was normal for boys to swim naked in front of girls. That was in the U.S., in the mid-1970s.
 
Merely examples of how context, and how location, can change the rules. And how even fairly recently even the U.S. was not homogeneous.
 
I hope someone will buy that Boston Globe article and share it with us.
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #130 on: Jun 8th, 2007, 4:25am »
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Rodney,
 
Thank you for the Boston Globe article. I'd hoped for more for $4.95, but it certainly is interesting that someone in 1891 was seeing nude swimming as already "much less prevalent".  
 
I did a bit more poking about archives, but the Globe seems to have a digitalization gap from the 20s to the 70s, the most interesting time for this topic.
 
Also, it's like searching the 50s for a reference to "analog watch", which won't turn up since there was no other kind.  
 
I did come across something I hadn't expected, from the Chicago Tribune, Feb 28, 1942:  
Drastic Curbs Are Placed on Chlorine Use  
 
"Clamping drastic restrictions on uses of chlorine, the War Production board today ordered a 50 per cent reduction in chlorine consumption for textile bleaching and barred its use in nearly all laundry operations and production of cosmetics and toilet preparations."
 
That came from a search on " 'swimming pool' sanitation ", so that's another reason why the war years might have a push-comes-to-shove situation.  Putting more chlorine in the pool was just not an option for dealing with the additional pollution of suits.
 
A search for "Modest boys swimming" at the Tribune found on  Nov 3, 1957:
NOTHING SISSY AT BOYS CLUBS, TOUGHS LEARN
Tells How Real Men Are Developed
That I think tells us something else about attitudes towards swimming suits.
 
A fairly wide range of searches, though, dredged up few articles that looked promising. Certainly nothing along the lines of "Women swim teachers fill in at Y". There may be a certain paradox here: if it was acceptable, it wasn't News.  
 
It's like civil rights: discrimination against blacks became news only when it was no longer acceptable. Before that it certainly occurred but you wouldn't get an article like "Blacks barred at Woolworth's lunch counter". It parts of the country where that was acceptable it wasn't news; where it wasn't acceptable it didn't happen.
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #131 on: Jun 8th, 2007, 5:02am »
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Well, here's a few more. From the Hartford Courant
 
Searching on "Boys swimming nude", we get:
 
  • Jan 26, 1978 YWCA Nude Swim Program Drawing Hurrahs, Hesitation
  • Jul 20, 1908 BOYS ARRESTED FOR SUNDAY BATHING
    Two boys named John Smith of No. 41 Broad street, aged 15 years, and John Miczanka of No. 237 Washington street, were arrested yesterday afternoon on the charge of nude bathing Sundays at Lawyer A. W. Upsons's ...
  • Feb 5, 1978 recalling the agony of summer camp days
  • Jul 22, 1968 25 Children Leave for Camp
     
  • Apr 23, 1939 Girls Are Silly Creatures, Says Typical American Boy

All that doesn't tell us much about the role of women, but some would certainly tell us about attitudes. None of this was available online five years ago; the ability to search in this manner was never previously available.  
 
Who knows what may not be possible in the future?
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #132 on: Jun 8th, 2007, 11:59am »
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Quote:
It's like civil rights: discrimination against blacks became news only when it was no longer acceptable. Before that it certainly occurred but you wouldn't get an article like "Blacks barred at Woolworth's lunch counter". It parts of the country where that was acceptable it wasn't news; where it wasn't acceptable it didn't happen.  

 
That hits the nail right on the head.
 
Anyone alive in the '40s and '50s (and before) will remember that virtually everyone smoked cigarettes. I remember ash trays in doctors' waiting rooms. Smoking was only prohibited in such areas as industrial processing sites where explosives were used. Just look at old movies; there was  body language involving cigarettes that is probably now lost on anyone not at least a child at the time.
People considered smoking unhealthy long before that and tried to teach kids not to. The present success at that dates from definite proof it causes cancer.
 
Who knows what things we do now and never even think about will one day seem strange -- and  looking back from 50 years later will be invisible because we never mention them....
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #133 on: Jun 8th, 2007, 6:45pm »
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Here's a bit more of a synthesis, in contrast to the rather disconnected data of last night. As in any generalization, this is flawed, especially in the way it treats the United States as being homogeneous. Regional and local variations would have been more pronounced than in these days of national mass communication.  
 
Up to, say, 1890 - men and boys bathing in the nude outdoors was very common and unremarkable, it being up to ladies to avert their sight.
 
1890- 1905, roughly: repression of nude bathing, with police force. A few more headlines, this time from the Washington Post:
  • Jun 22, 1891 CAUGHT IN THE NUDE
    Two Colored Boys Who Would Swim at Steamer wharves.
    Long and loud complaints have been made about the boys, black and white, who go swimming in the river alongside the steamer wharves clad only in nature's garb. Yesterday the policemen made a raid on the boys.
  • Jun 7, 1895 ANNOYED BY NUDE BATHERS
    People of Anacostia Compelled to Complain to the Police Authorities.
    The number of boys who disport themselves in the waters of the Eastern Branch, near the Anacostia shore, in a nude condition, contrary to law, during the hours of broad day, has attracted a great deal of comment and criticism.

  • Aug 7, 1900 TOOK BATHERS' CLOTHES
    Policeman Induced Two to Come Ashore, While a Third Was Left Nude.
    Three youths from Washington went to Anacostia on Sunday afternoon to take a swim. They were enjoying themselves hugely, when their pleasure was interrupted by the appearance of Officers McCormick and Schuyler, mounted members of the police force, attached to the Anacostia sub-station.
  • Jun 29, 1906 TO PUNISH NUDE BATHERS
    Alexandria Sheriff Says He Will Get Busy To-day. Declares Heavy Fines or Jail Sentences Will Soon Abate Nuisance on the Potomac.
    The attention of Sheriff William H. Palmer, of Alexandria County, was called last night to a statement emanating from Washington, to the effect that he had made no effort to break up the practice by certain men and boys of bathing in the Potomac River, on the Virginia side, above the Aqueduct Bridge, without bathing suits, to the annoyance of people who enjoy boating on that part of the river.

And from again the Hartford Courant:
  • Jul 17, 1901 HARTFORD'S DISGRACE
    Naked Men and Boys at the River Front IMPRESSION MADE UPON A VISITING YACHTSMAN Shocked and Surprised that Such a Sight Should be Permitted Practically in the Center of the City What Chief Bill Says
    The handsome steam yacht Duquesnelay at anchor in the Connecticut River at Hartford from Saturday until Monday morning. She attracted the attention of many people, for her lines were beautifully drawn and everything was spick and span aboard. Her owner, Colonel James G. Butler of St. Louis...

 
Let us now jump from the firm ground of data to the swamp of speculation. Note the last article from the Courant: the bathers are unconcerned about being seen, it’s visiting Colonels and such who don’t care to look at them.
 
The analogy I suggest is clotheslines. Many condominiums have rules which prohibit clotheslines. Not that they are particularly offensive to the sight, but that they are seen as a sign of poverty. They are used in movies, too, to quickly convey people who can't afford the costs of unecological mechanical drying.
 
I suggest that attempts were made to stamp out nude bathing not so much because it was a moral issue, but because it conveyed poverty and backwardness, not unlike clotheslines today and black people half a century back.
 
It was a measure not in the interest of those swimming, but in those who could afford indoor plumbing and had no interest in observing - the phrase "the great unwashed" is singularly inappropriate in this context, but you know what I mean.
 
And if the police had to arrest boys to keep them from swimming nude in sight of men, women, God and everybody, I'll take that as a sign that boys and men were not themselves hesitant to swim nude in public.
 
Let’s move a little ahead in time. We have more data points, quoted in previous articles. I refer to the 1939 article “Girls Are Silly Creatures, Says Typical American Boy”, and the 1957 “NOTHING SISSY AT BOYS CLUBS, TOUGHS LEARN: Tells How Real Men Are Developed” both found is searches for references to nude swimming. Rodney posted a line from the full text of the 1891 article, “Boys who show up at such venues wearing bathing trunks are teased and taunted into removing them, and are sometimes threatened with forcible removal of their suits if they don't get the hint.”
 
That gives us another attitude, which certainly persisted up to my own day, in such arguments about school showers as “You’ll have to get used to it when you’re in the Army”. Bathing suits and modesty were for girls.
 
Incidentally, a search in the Courant archives http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/courant/advancedsearch.html for “police nude bath*” provides a whole slew of articles. Up to about 1915 the tone is of moral outrage; with rarer articles to the mid-60s it’s more commonplace – an article on a young man arrested sunbathing nude in a park is accompanied by a town official rejecting the construction of city solariums; from “hippies” on it’s more a cheerful salaciousness.  
 
Well, that was long. It doesn’t answer the question of women as swim instructors or spectators. However, it does show that yesterday's modesty concerns were not today's. It also shows that there is evidence if once cares to look for it.
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #134 on: Jun 9th, 2007, 5:21am »
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Thanks, leo_c, for the story of the Circle Line and the skinny dippers. Hadn't seen your earlier post on the subject. It reminds me of something a tour guide told a group of us as we were touring Lake Como in Italy once. She pointed out the villa that had once been owned by the Italian film director Luciano Visconti's family. She then said that when Visconti was a boy, he and a friend of his would stand naked on either end of the railing that surrounded the villa's backyard and that overlooked the waters of the lake. As the tour boats of that era would approach the villa, the two boys would strike a pose and remain motionless, pretending to be statues. Then, just as the boat was at its closest, they would "come alive", squirming and wriggling and waving their little unmentionables at the shocked passengers. No male modesty for them, apparently!
With regard to CFNM swimming by boys, I wonder if there might be some indirect evidence to support the idea that this was an acceptable practice, at least at some times and in some places, in the following: Some mainstream popular magazines, including specifically Life magazine, published articles in the 1940's and 50's that included photographs of groups of boys swimming naked or showering. These photographs were generally discreet, but sometimes included the boys' butts. At least some of the articles in which such photographs featured were also very specific about the exact location (junior high or high school, summer camp, etc.) where the photographs had been taken. Given that the photographers must have had the cooperation of both the institutions and the boys themselves, we can draw some interesting conclusions: 1. Life and other such magazines had no problem with the idea that the female portion of their readership would be treated to the sight of unclothed  teenaged boys within the pages of a "family" magazine. 2. The boys themselves had no problem with the fact that they would be seen by these women, either. 3. At least a few of the girls who attended the featured schools must have had the opportunity to find out what their friends and classmates looked like in the buff. (One imagines a lot of giggling and pointing.) So, if it was ok in photographs, maybe it was ok "live" as well?
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #135 on: Jun 9th, 2007, 4:22pm »
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2. The boys themselves had no problem with the fact that they would be seen by these women, either.
The April 15, 1940 issue of LIFE with the picture of the boys in the Olneyville, RI Boys' Club pool, has a note from the photographer, Eliot Elisofon, on page 13 of the magazine:
 
"I talked to them in their own language," he says, "and threatened to throw out the first one who looked at the camera. The boys were skeptical until I ordered  one of them out of the pool. They're real kids - no fakes."
 
The picture in the shower room, someone posted, is  in an article on "Democracy", and one of the boys said that it illustrates democracy because the kids didn't shove to be in the picture. (I don't have a copy of that one, so I can't give exact wording.)
 
In both these cases, though, there seemed to be plenty of boys willing and eager to appear.
 
And here's something from the New York Times from Friday, August 25, 1922:
 
CATCH 9 BOYS IN RAID ON 'SWIMMING HOLE'; Police Circle Fountain on Bowling Green as Youngsters Scatter in All Directions. TWO SLIP THROUGH CORDON Penny-Throwing Crowd Cheer Fugitives--Prisoners Freed With a Warning.
 
It has been a matter for downtown speculation as to just how many windows look down on the small fountain in the centre of Bowling Green Park. There are more than a thousand, it is safe to say, and from every one of those windows stenographers, clerks and business men generally have watched ...
 
Note the reference to "stenographers".  
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #136 on: Jun 9th, 2007, 8:37pm »
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This is a rather vulgar comment, but look at the boy on the far right, with his arms over his head.
 
Now examine his shadow.
 
The Olneyville pictures have a similar indiscreet shadow.
 
Incidentally, the Elisofon negatives are in a Texas library:
http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/research/fa/elisofon.folder1.html
 
'Olneyville, Rhode Island, Boys Club,' "Kids Swarm to Olneyville Boys Club Pool," Set #5934, LIFE, 15 April 1940
2.31     3x4 contact prints (8 exp.)
132.15 3x4 neg. (17 exp.)
2.32 tearsheets
 
133.6   120mm neg. (31 exp.), 3x4 neg. (59 exp.), [ca. 1940-1941]
"Democracy in U.S. Schools," Set #7894, LIFE, 13 Jan. 1941;

 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #137 on: Jun 10th, 2007, 12:40pm »
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The girl in the front circle at 3 o'clock seems not to have a razor -- but that's a whole nother discussion.
 
You must realize that since the library to which this link goes is part of the University of Texas you have to be able to make the "horns" sign (and thus communicate manually with OPEC) to get admission to the building and see the real, secret, hidden pictures only some are allowed to view.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #138 on: Jun 11th, 2007, 12:28am »
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In line with Rodney's story a few posts above, this is from the book "A Vingança do Timão" ("The Team's Revenge") by Carlos Moraes, (c) 1987. The book is written for a juvenile audience, and for boys.
 
The section translated here starts just after the first spring swim. One of the boys, nicknamed "The Devil's Secretary",  jumped into the pool and disappeared, and when given up for dead reappears, calm, on the hill above the pool.
 
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The news of the “drowning” reached the closest houses in the town of Fião and three girls, with Beta in front, came to see for themselves. No one expected this, and naked boys jumped into the water or disappeared into the thorny underbrush. Also, nothing of the sort had ever happened before. The river, in those days, was the untouchable redoubt of men, a girl who wanted to swim had to travel two hundred and fifty kilometers to Cassino beach, in Rio Grande. Unless they were the prostitutes from Stella Boarding House, who had their very own beach, but even so far from civilization.  
 
But Beta. In books it’s always the foreign girl who arrives and upsets the native customs. But Beta, Elizabeth, the daughter of seu Joaquim, railway worker, and dona Conceição, teacher, had lived there in Fião since she was small. Very native and pretty. Actually, in body she was almost an Indian. Tall, dark, with long hair, and large eyes and mouth, firm hips, everything about her was clean and forceful. She came and wanted to know about the drowning victim. We showed her Secretary and everyone laughed.
 
Beta sat on a rock and her companions, Vera and little Marilda, were as much at sea as we were. They certainly didn’t have Beta’s clear head. Marilda liked me a little, which was lamentable, because she even had a short nose, and women with short noses, in general, look like what they are: dumb, prone to tripping, between a snake and a Pekinese.
 
Beta announced that on the next sunny day she would come and swim with us. Matthew looked and the ground and laughed, embarrassed. I thought about things. Only Tony thought it natural, why not? They were much alike, Tony and Beta.  
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #139 on: Jun 11th, 2007, 6:54am »
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I think this thread is pretty cool.  When I first founded VSFW, I'd say something like "female guards are allowed in male prisons", and would be challenged and attacked by clueless guys used to arguing a point by pulling their thoughts out their ass.   I would quote appellate court decisions, law reviews, personal published accounts, correctional manuals and policies, etc., but would get debated by someone thinking they knew more because, well, they just thought so without any research.
 
Here in this thread, we have a ton of members bringing in a ton of references and research.  Regardless of which side you believe, it's very compelling and educational.
 
As it pertains to skinny dipping occurring historically, I really don't understand why it's an issue to discuss.  Shit, there's a HELL of a lot more of it going on today than ever in the history of this country.  I do it all the time at the many nude beaches that abound in the US.  Here in California I can think of 20 nude beaches, hot springs, etc.  This doesn't include the hotels and spas that also allow nude swim use.  But unlike days of old where girls were not around or might spy, today they come and are expected to be present at public nudie spots (and they don't avert their eyes either!).   And guys, its FANTASTIC.  Stop researching this topic and just come to the beach and enjoy CFNM with the rest of us - it's so damned much fun!
 
Lastly, after reading some of the accounts by our regulars regarding female instructors and nude male boys, I believe the stories.  The authors, the way they're written, etc., are too convincing and represent what I believe are authentic accounts.  It was a different era, and who knows?  Although I believe such occurrences were rare, I believe they did happen based upon the credibility of our regular authors.  
 
Frankly, I'm glad I live in our era.  And I've had no problem discovering CFNM, or for that matter, through this VSFW forum, creating and naming it.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #140 on: Jun 11th, 2007, 12:26pm »
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Since it seems to have formerly been so widely accepted, I wonder if nude beaches are best understood as a conservative measure...
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #141 on: Jun 12th, 2007, 6:48pm »
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Would like to address this to RODNEY and CAIPORA concerning the comments on the pictures posted of the cheerleaders and the boys in the shower.  
 The outfits the girls are wearing were not considered in the least bit revealing back in the 50s. Bathing suits were much more revealing back then. Women even wore outfits with bare midriffs back then, it was not the dark ages.  
 As for the boys in the shower, I take it you are pointing out the shadow of the boys penis. I have no reason to jerk you around, this would not have been any concern to the boys, photographer, magazine that printed it or anyone. I cant tell you where to find pictures from 50 yrs. ago but believe me you would occasionally see pictures of nude boys published as they swam in a pool or diving into the water at the swimming hole. Usually it was a back shot showing their buns but occasionally a penis or two would show up.  It certainly was not a big concern that I was aware of. The pictures would be of boys jumping off a rock or maby at a boy scout camp, or railroad tressel. All innocent having fun stuff.  
  Try to take that kind of picture today and you would probably be accused of being a pedophlite ( or however you spell it) Hard to believe such innocient times have evolved into pornograph situations.  regards  LEO C.  PS. prease excuse my spelling.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #142 on: Jun 12th, 2007, 9:52pm »
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The outfits the girls are wearing were not considered in the least bit revealing
True, but not considered the least bit attractive, either.  
I've run across complaints by girls, about the "tank suits" they wore in swimming class. Thin cotton or nylon, absolutely form-fitting, and color-coded by size so that there was a "fat girl" color.  
 
One reason I look at published photos is that they not only show us what people did, they show us what was acceptable to show in public.  
Quote:
Usually it was a back shot showing their buns but occasionally a penis or two would show up.
I'm going to disagree with you. From what I've seen, butts were O.K., but fronts were not.  
 
It's a fine line, like the apparent National Geographic policy that is was all right to show a woman's breasts if her skin was dark enough.
 
As to the shadow, as I said, in the other similar LIFE photo essay, at about the same time by the same photographer, the anatomy itself was blotted out in the dark room but the shadow was left. Retouching was more difficult in pre-digital days, which may be part.
 
One reason I posted the link to the library archives - is there a smiley for the mystic horns sign? - is that with a few dozen photos, some published and some not, it may be possible to more closely draw the line about what was acceptable. And also to see if there were women in the audience.
 
 - Caipora
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #143 on: Jun 15th, 2007, 3:32pm »
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Well shoot.  I see one thumbnail that keeps timing out when I try to see it larger and no other pictures.  Could somebody repost them?
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #144 on: Jun 17th, 2007, 5:22pm »
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I dunno what a YMCA interior looks like, for there were zero in my community back when.  
 
However,
 
In reading through the notes here, I had often wondered if.... Well, lemme explain.
 
The gal who took care of us kids was raised in Greece. She then moved to a couple places in the Pennsylvania state area, before going to the Chicago area. Years later she told us and her friends that she took courses to become a school teacher, but found those to be non-transferable to the U.S.A. so she took up teaching swimming to youngsters at high schools, and at fraternal organizations like the YMCA. During the summer she was a life guard at a public pool once. So had lots of indoor and outdoor responsible work in her background.
 
We went to beach once when I was very young (maybe 5 or 6), and it was my first experience with water in volumne greater than a bathtub. Never been there before, and was complete surprize when we rolled up in the car. Set out on to the sand, and she just as quickly took clothes off of me (and one other friend) and swatted us on the butt, and told to get wet. While doing this, she explained to a friend of her's how little boys had never wore bathing suits in her life. We were not rich, so perhaps she was saving a $ here too.
 
Next,
 
After an incident, we moved to Palm Desert California. That very same  friend of her's was nearby neighbor too. Most every afternoon, five days per week, until I was 13 years old my sister (older) and I went to the friend's local backyard swimming pool. My sister and her invited friend were fashionable, and wore whatever was latest. Me and my one invited friend wore nothing, 'cept all of us had a big bath towel thrown over the shoulder. We used to trot across hot afternoon sandy vacant lots in our bare feet, and across two four lane (not busy) boulevards to get to that backyard swimming pool. That same friend/neighbor invited us in and we (usually four) swam around until about 5PM. If you go back into archives here, you may be able read about our experiences playing "Submarine" too.  
 
My thought, and after some consideration as to what has been discussed, is that our keeper did not come by the idea that little boys (or young men) should swim without clothes by her own imagination. I think perhaps that in her background the idea was planted. And then when we two came along it came back naturally again. This idea that men should swim nude could have been planted in Greece, or by being employed at some YMCA and seeing what went on there. I don't know, but perhaps she was a swim instructor at one of these places so mentioned. We never found out, for she died suddenly on us. You think this feasible for never saw the interior of a YMCA? My (our) female keeper was the basis?
 
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #145 on: Jun 17th, 2007, 10:10pm »
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CAIPORA, sorry I have to disagree with you. There may have been censorship in the dark room but if memory serves me correctly, some pictures got thru. Off the top of my head the pictures of the CZAR that are shown occasionally on the history station comes to mind. He and other males are nude jumping into a lake. May not be shown anymore since the superbowl costume malfunction occured and tv stations are reluctant to show SCHINDLERS LIST or any nudity.
 I sure remember pictures being printed on occasion with male nudity but certainly cant remember where. I am 63 yrs. now. Besides LIFE magazine there was also LOOK, SAT. EVENING POST ( norman rockwell was there illustrator ) HARPERS BIZARRE, BOYS LIFE that all he boy scouts got. When and in what contects this occured, I really cant tell you as I admit I dont really know. How about the WW2 pictures of troops bathing in a fresh water pools somewhere in the S. pacific after a battle. I am sure you have seen them. Same goes for troops showering in KOREA. Those troops sure were not going to give the photographer the time to set up an acceptable pose. I wish I could give you better info but this was a long time ago. Keep searching and I am sure you will come up with something. It was out there.  regards  LEO C.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #146 on: Jun 18th, 2007, 4:26pm »
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Billbulloney what you are describing isn't unusual.  Who changes the diapers or bathes liitle boys.  Mothers or female care givers.  If you are accustomed to bathing little boys would not also let them swim in the nude?  When would you stop this practice?  When they become self conscious about it!  It is all very innocent.  There are lots of places in the world where small children run around naked.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #147 on: Jun 18th, 2007, 5:26pm »
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Here are some articles on nude male swimming at the Y, schools and gyms.   They discuss how men swimming nude was the custom of the era, not only for some of these venues, but for most.
 
However, they do illustrate how this custom changed as pool areas were forced to accept  the presence females, and the change in custom happened instantly when the women began to enter.  I think that although it may have occurred in some places, by and large, it would have been highly irregular for a female to enter into the swim areas where men swam nude.  In fact, most of the articles found underscore that the pools and swim areas of these gyms were male-only bastions and no women were around.
 
(note - for those that don't know this trick, in a long article hold the Ctrl key down and hit "F", then type  in the field the word "swam", "naked" or "nude" and you'll see where in the articles the topic is addressed):
 
 
http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/ymca.html
 
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4196/is_20031218/ai_n10910746
 
http://www.isn.net/susankin/006q.html
 
http://home.wanadoo.nl/ipce/library_two/files/esser_baggy.htm
 
http://www.kffl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173628&page=2
 
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F01EEDC1F31F931A35756C0A 9639C8B63
 
http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/1400016152/m/1640094 983/p/1
 
http://www.mtexpress.com/2003/03-11-26/03-11-26bmlodge.htm
 
 
Again, I believe there were aberrations to the above wherein pre-puberty boys swam nude while mothers or other female guardians took watch over the children.  Much more than that, although it probably happened, was extraordinarily rare - I doubt you will find any reflections or stories indicating it happened in any type of article like the ones above, which seem to show a consensus that they were male-only environments.
 
 
 
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #148 on: Jun 18th, 2007, 5:37pm »
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There is no logic, no personal narrative, no official account, no photographic documentation that's going to convince some persons of the absolute factual truth that sometimes boys (and a few times girls) swam nude and on occasion saw each other before, maybe, last September.
 
Does the CFNM topic attract a certain type of obsessive?
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #149 on: Jun 18th, 2007, 9:40pm »
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It seems to me that it's most likely that women observing or teaching naked boys was rare, but happened, and that we'll eventually see proof of that.  
 
The flip side is that we will never see proof that the above conclusion is untrue. How can you prove something never happened? Even assume you can find a national YMCA policy disallowing women teaching nude boys what have you got? Proof that something happened to make someone feel a policy was needed. And of course there were rules and more, there were laws against overt homosexual behavior; and while I never saw that at a YMCA I certainly believe it happened.
 
Incidentally, regarding the end of nude swimming, YMCAs had women members from the 1930s on at least, and there were official brochures advising local Ys to recruit more women in the 1950s, when nude swimming was prevalent. My junior high had equal numbers of boys and girls, and nude swimming for boys into the late 1970s.
 
The end of nude swimming didn't come with the admission of women, it came with the recognition of homosexuality. That doesn't fit the consensus, but it fits the dates.
 
As to leo_c's contention that magazines printed pictures showing naked men from the front, I don't think so.  National Geographic if they were dark enough, yes. But outside the anthropological, no, it wasn't done.
 
I once visited a Yahoo groups with pictures of casual nudity; the moderator had a succinct policy: "No dicks, please".  I think that sums up the mainstream press view on nudity,
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #150 on: Jun 18th, 2007, 10:01pm »
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on Jun 18th, 2007, 9:40pm, Caipora wrote:

Incidentally, regarding the end of nude swimming, YMCAs had women members from the 1930s on at least, and there were official brochures advising local Ys to recruit more women in the 1950s, when nude swimming was prevalent. My junior high had equal numbers of boys and girls, and nude swimming for boys into the late 1970s.
 
The end of nude swimming didn't come with the admission of women, it came with the recognition of homosexuality. That doesn't fit the consensus, but it fits the dates.
 

 
I disagree with that Caipora.  Some Y's had women members.  There was no ban nationally.  But they didn't have full facilities for women, certainly not in the 30's.  Women membership was on a token basis.
I was on the board of my local YMCA.  Nude swimming stopped because they finally offered full facilities for women in the 70's.  They remodeled the Y completely and put in a new pool with picture windows to the lobby so nude swimming wasn't an option any more.  And I can assure you that homosexuality never ever was mentioned as a consideration in the board meetings although it could have been at other Ys.  Nude swimming stopped because of the national push to make Ys a family facility.  They were very successful with this.  Look what happened to YW's.  They never made men welcome, and they have dwindled in numbers so greatly that they are nearly extinct as a national association.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #151 on: Jun 18th, 2007, 11:35pm »
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First, here's a Boys' Club swimming pool drawing. Not a practical price, but the auction has some good-size pictures. Note the bleachers, and that that the artist was apparently able to draw there:
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140130254777
 
Quote:
I was on the board of my local YMCA.  Nude swimming stopped because they finally offered full facilities for women in the 70's.  They remodeled the Y completely and put in a new pool with picture windows to the lobby so nude swimming wasn't an option any more.  
OK, but the 70s was already fairly late. I think in the 60s nude swimming was gone in most places. Its end largely pre-dated feminism, and it was almost extinct when Title IX came around. Quote:
Look what happened to YW's.  They never made men welcome, and they have dwindled in numbers so greatly that they are nearly extinct as a national association.

Perhaps like women's colleges. However their national structure was more centralized.  
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #152 on: Jun 19th, 2007, 12:47am »
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on Jun 18th, 2007, 11:35pm, Caipora wrote:

 
OK, but the 70s was already fairly late. I think in the 60s nude swimming was gone in most places. Its end largely pre-dated feminism, and it was almost extinct when Title IX came around.  
Perhaps like women's colleges. However their national structure was more centralized.  
 
 - Caipora

 
I agree that feminism didn't have much to do with the ending of nude swimming, at least not in high schools where women never pushed for coed classes.  The women already took swimming.  It was probably more a reflection of the growing prudishness of American culture and recognition that the rationalizations for male only nude swimming made no sense at all.  Modern bathing suits don't clog filters, and bathing suits are cheap and nearly anyone can afford them now.  Hygiene considerations are minimal and would apply equally to women.
A few institutions were forced to admit women on an equal basis, but the Y's and most other places elected to do it quite voluntarily to draw families as members.  And nowadays as Brad's and many other references attest, nude swimming is not an attraction for most younger guys who never experienced it.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #153 on: Jun 19th, 2007, 1:11pm »
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Hello, back again! Would like to comment on the links recently posted by BRAD. 4 th. down discusses the baggy pants worn my males today and that any brief style is now considered gay. Excuse me but what are people thinking today. 99% of the time I swim nude, because I can and it is comfortable. There is no way those long suits down close to the ankels can be comfortable wet or dry. I call these baggy outfits that seem like males of all ages are wearing today as WANNA- BE-PANTS. How can you walk thru a store or work for a living in those things? Might work while shooting baskets in the ghetto but even old picture of the KNICKS or CELTICS dont show guys on the court wearing anything close.
 Just rambeling now!  Same artical mentions that the big catalogue stores has stopped using pictures of boys in under wear and reverted to illustrations. Have not bought anything from SEARS for years so I will take their word for it. What the hell happen to this country when I was not looking and busy making a living? Next thing the thought police will have all the scenes with young boys or girls in less than full dress deleated from all the old movies. Speaking of deleations, I bet the HISTORY CHANNEL can no longer show the clips of the CZAR swimming nude that I have told people about. If you ever read 1984 you will remember there was a seperate misistry whose function was to go back and rewrite history to fit the current political ideas.
 Enough of that, I am getting long winded. One more thing though, CAIPORA- you are probably right, male frontial nudity was probably always censored years ago. That was long ago that I forget and never paid that much attention to.  
  thank you for listening.  LEO C
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #154 on: Jun 19th, 2007, 2:28pm »
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We may have answers.
 
Two things I harp on are:
  • Regional differences
  • the existence of documentation, if looked for

Long time poster Allan has affirmed that in his YMCA or YWCA swimming lessons, in the Boston are, nude boys were taught by women.
 
I've postulated that a shortage of male teachers during WWII might have also lead to women being called on to teach boys.
 
Well, it appears that the Northeastern University Library, in Boston has 49.25 cubic ft. of records of the Boys and Girls' Clubs of Boston, describes as "1893-2004 (bulk 1950's-1980's)": http://www.lib.neu.edu/archives/collect/findaids/m103find.htm
 
Some items of note are:
photographs, FF5/D10 Water Sports: Swimming, Diving (4 folders) 1924-1993
 
and  
46Training Volunteers and Part-Time Workers for Boys' Clubs1942
 
There also seems to be a box with decades worth of news clippings.  
 
I rather think that something in there will document the question. It's the right region, for the eyewitness testimony we have; the right time period; and the right archive.
 
Anyone in Boston?
 
- Caipora
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #155 on: Jun 27th, 2007, 12:59am »
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Thanks to Rodney for posting the "Democracy" pics. They definitely illustrate the double standard as it existed at that time. If any photographer back then had ever attempted to take a picture of a group of girls that age showering, he would have been tossed into jail sooner than you could say "cheese"! Plus which, the girls presumably didn't have "gang showers" in the first place.  
 
I'm still sort of fascinated wondering what the girls in the school thought as they looked at that photograph. I assume the visit of a Life Magazine photographer and writer would have been big news, so that they all would have been aware of the article when it came out. Combine that with the fact that several of the guys in the picture are clearly recognizable, and I think we have a pioneering CFNM situation. While the mores of the time probably didn't allow the girls to tease the guys about the photo, I can easily imagine them talking about it among themselves. Still, the guys clearly had no problem with it, with one student going so far as to provide the caption to the photo, and thus the tenuous link between the theme of Democracy and an overcrowded shower room.  
 
Is anyone familiar with a similar photo shoot involving skinny dipping at a summer camp that was published in Holiday Magazing in June (I think), 1950? It illustrates a similar attitude both on the part of the photographer and the magazine on the one hand, and on the part of the "subjects" of the photo on the other.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #156 on: Jun 27th, 2007, 1:10pm »
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Rodney....
 
I can remember one time in Palm Desert it must have been greater than 120 degrees outside and it was only ten minutes from the time we kids got booted out of the house and aimed towards the afternoon entertainment. Me and my one friend were already (un) dressed and ready to go, just finishing up lunch in the kitchen. My sister and her friend came in both naked, and my guardian went ballistic as seeing the two. Told them both to get dressed into their suits, for she wasn't about to aprove any skin show. What would (the few) neighbors tink? The two began to argue as young teenagers often do, and mentioned it was too hot etc. and then unfair how guys could go naked and stay cooler than gals in those (two piece) suits etc.  They lost the argument.
 
As you mentioned I also remember traveling south on Hwy. 99 near to Kingsburg in early summer during the middle 1990's. Ahead the auto tail lights suddenly went red, so I slowed too. The cause was there were several youngsters and early high schoolers at the edge of the road. The river level used to go up and down then, some times so low that boats could not use it and only thing seen as you passed by on the highway was MUD. The railroad and the highway Dept. both had a bridge over the remains of the river there. One side of the four lane highway had a couple kids going down the slope, there were a few on very far side, and maybe four in the median. There were more than one dozen total, all looked to be naked, a bit wet, but mostly covered in mud. A few were hunched over on the far side awaiting traffic to clear so they could jot across the asphalt to the median, and those in the median were awaiting me to pass so they could run and join the others in front. I figure that if properly thick and strategically placed, MUD hides all embarassment as to being naked in public.
 
 
And, as mentioned before. I still do not know what goes on inside a YMCA or YWCA, past nor present, for last one I was in it was under construction. No staff, guests, or occupants. No doors either for that interferred with wheelbarrows entering and exiting.
 
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #157 on: Jul 7th, 2007, 7:00am »
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Not sure if it's been posted within this thread yet, but this was on the photos board posted by jonjon"
 
Very well done, and sums up this thread:
http://www.itsjerrytime.com/?p=113
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #158 on: Jul 7th, 2007, 12:27pm »
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Brad.....
 
Must be some sort of SPAM or virus got attached to the thread you noted, for filters here are going "blinky" with bleeping out things.  
 
Can actually only see what is along righthand margin. Which makes little sence. Could have been attributed to one of the respondants.
 
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #159 on: Jul 8th, 2007, 4:35am »
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on Jul 7th, 2007, 12:27pm, BillBulloney wrote:
Brad.....
 
Must be some sort of SPAM or virus got attached to the thread you noted, for filters here are going "blinky" with bleeping out things.  
 
Can actually only see what is along righthand margin. Which makes little sence. Could have been attributed to one of the respondants.
 
 
Bill

I have no clue...it opens fine for me.  Try just the URL without extension:
 
http://www.itsjerrytime.com/
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #160 on: Aug 2nd, 2007, 12:39pm »
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Hello, would like to point something out. I dont normally look at the picture section as the post mostly look like posed, paid, set up situations. Nothing wrong with that but it does not work for me. Was courious and clicked on ameture cfnm blog by MARKSUNN.  
 Noticed one section concerned cfnm swimming. Variety of pictures and might be interesting to some who are looking for picture proof that the pratice did occure in competative events as some people have said. I never did swim competition or had a female swimming instructor but did swim at the Y with females present. Others have stated that they swam nude at swim events, which is good enough for me, I have no reason to doubt them as most occurences seem to have been a long time ago when things were different.  
 Would like to suggest that someone who has the computer savvy some how transfer those pictures to this blog, if it can be done, so that if anyone still doubts these occurances will have the info in front of them. THANKS, regards LEO C
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #161 on: Sep 20th, 2007, 6:33pm »
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As you may have heard, the New York Times has opened its archives, at least pre-1920-something, to free access.
 
This, alas, has no confirmation of "clothed females". By modern calculations, 80 pounds is about ten years old.  Underfed New York urchins of a hundred years ago probably ran more to the ton than today's youth.
 
- Caipora
 
Published: April 18, 1909
Copyright © The New York Times
 
 

Young Swimmers in Championships
Elementary School Aquatic Records Beaten in Annual Contests in Interior Bath.
Big Fields in Five Events

 
[...]
 
The athletic prowess of the very small boys in the eighty-pound championship was of less moment to the spectators than the enthusiasm of the youngsters, who discovered in their trial heats that their swimming trunks impeded them, and that they could swim faster nude. Thereafter the rule about trunks went into the discard, and very small boys in a state of nature swam like tadpoles through the many heats necessary to a decision, with Joseph Fulton, Public School 67, Manhattan, the winner in0:12 4-5, a record for the class, and the fastest time in the race.  
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #162 on: Sep 22nd, 2007, 12:02pm »
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I've told this story before. In Junior High (grades 7 to 9) in Toronto, back in the late 1950's, boys swam naked in gym class, and girls swam (and showered!) clothed. Separately, of course.
 
The pool was in the basement level, where the lockers were kept. Someone, we know not who, but suspected a CFNM perv boy, worked a brick loose in the wall that separated the pool from the girls' locker side (in those days, girls' lockers were separated from boys' lockers).
 
There was a boys' swim night once or twice a week. I was loitering around one of those nights, and heard a bunch of giggles from the girls' locker area, so went over to investigate. There was a lineup of girls waiting their turn to peek into the pool area at the naked boys. Some guy had removed the brick .. he had told one of his girl pals he would do that, the word spread, and the girls congregated.
 
Invariably the reaction was humorous. They would bend over to peek in, sporting big wide grins, then often stifle giggles, turn pink with embarrassment, back up with hands over their mouths stifling laughter.
 
The boys were 12 to 14 or so, some still immature, others fully grown. Some of the comments were along the lines of 'wow did you see Bob's?'. One guy walked towards the brickhole while a girl was peeking, and waved his cock at the hole. THAT girl was giggling for several minutes.
 
That went on for more than one swimnight, maybe two or three, until someone ratted, and the brick was mortared back into place. Rats.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #163 on: Sep 27th, 2007, 12:53pm »
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Cai and others....
 
Well, best that I can figure is that this storyline is not staying directly on the concept of the YWCA. I have already made one note here, but this subject must getting out there around the world too somehow. It may be misleading and wrong on occasion too. Here is something I found recently.
 
Going back here a number of years ago I had a young lady visitor from Helsinki.  We have communicate via Internet maybe twice per year for in this time it was figured that she must have a connection with a local newpaper. Instead of a hard message, out of the blue there is no note but an entrance number to take a look at the latest edition. The tranlator to English works only one time and I gotta be quick to read the whole newspaper. Got one again over past weekend. Since she does not mention what particular article is of interest, I am supposed to read the whole thing, then try to figure out her implication.
 
This time deep into one of the sections was (what appeared to be third in an ongoing series of articles) about the current troubles the Finish Olympic teams were facing. They do not do real good each year but in this issue was mention about the troubles they were experiencing in keeping up with the speeds of the East Germans during 1960's  
 
To summerize that article, they used to have swimming clubs throughout the nation to train very young competitors (they apparently have few today which was main point of article). Some time then one of these clubs must have found that men in nude swam faster than with clothing for tryouts were then held one year in which all comers were permitted to enter the event nude or not, and if sucessful then go before their national Olympic selecting committee. From what I read in the article, this was a one time only affair during the middle 1960's, a last gasp to keep up with the advancing speeds. In the newpaper were six B&W pictures included from the 1950 up until last year, each outlying troubles in selecting the fastest. One picture which caught my eye was captioned as Olympic Hopefulls lining up for registration which was a picture of several svelt blonde ladies in black (or dark) swimming suits along a wall looking forward, and in between them were several nude, but wet looking guys. All supposedly in straight line before some registration table. It had an Associated Press photo bug in one corner. Leading me to believe it came from the A.P. library.
 
The article was written by a Kajie and it appears she did not do much investigating. Of the six pictures printed, one picture was suspicious in that it is also often times included in photo arrays at CFNMZone, or CFNMNet. Kajie must not be much of a reporter for had she looked or known, there were others in the photo series which showed two of the blondes in that picture playing with the dickie of the guy up front in the line. Then too, the girls all had long blonde hair, instead of being cut short. Which makes me suspicious and think the whole series of pictures were purposely posed for. I think that Kajie grabbed a clear but wrong picture, then either read or assumed the caption. Wonder why she did not investigate as to if the Olypmic Divers, and Water Polo participants played w/o clothes. Unrelated?
 
'least Kajie did not grab that old Dutch swimming event picture, for the ladies in that one were not attractive long hair blondes, as they had thick muscular thighs. I do not know how much of the article was hype, nor how much was accurate, but what was shown sure pours doubt on to everything there. Not shown, but was mentioned in that article was how certain Russian mens and women's teams have been training in the nude the past couple seasons. Via secret competitions they too have found an increase of about 1/10 of a second in their finishing speeds. This too seem familiar?
 
Which shows to go you, that you cannot always trust the captions or the writers to get the story correct. Amazing as to what first impresion would be to subscribers of that newspaper. (Retraction or correction could be forthcoming ten days later at bottom of page 24.)
 
Do you comprend FAKE or HYPE?
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #164 on: Oct 7th, 2007, 12:25am »
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I'm not sure if this has been posted.  I found it on a video sharing server that was posted on the Photos board.  It is video from the 1985 movie called "Heaven Help Us" about a Catholic high school, St. Michaels.  It gives a good visual of what it was probably like to be in a swim class back in the 50s and 60s.  In the video reviews, someone posted that the scene of the nude swim class for the boys was definitely a factual portrayal:
 
http://www.youaction.com/view_video.php?viewkey=cff1ad7f0e261c369ab2& ;page=8&viewtype=&category=mr
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« Reply #165 on: Oct 7th, 2007, 10:11am »
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on Oct 7th, 2007, 12:25am, Brad wrote:
I'm not sure if this has been posted.  I found it on a video sharing server that was posted on the Photos board.  It is video from the 1985 movie called "Heaven Help Us" about a Catholic high school, St. Michaels.  It gives a good visual of what it was probably like to be in a swim class back in the 50s and 60s.  In the video reviews, someone posted that the scene of the nude swim class for the boys was definitely a factual portrayal:
 

 
Yes this is what swim classes were like for me in high school in the late 50's.  
What Brad does not say is that stills from this movie are on the VSFW home site under sports events as representing a rare photo of CFNM.  The priest in the frock who can't be well seen is falsely labeled as a young woman.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #166 on: Oct 7th, 2007, 5:26pm »
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Quote:
were women ever present at such venues who did not have a "good reason" to be there, such as sisters and female school classmates, sitting on bleachers watching the naked guys swim?

 
It probably happened sometimes, not as a matter of policy but due to some circumstance or another. Probably seldom was anything made of such incidents because the people may have known each other or the people in charge thought they did or didn't care or didn't want to create an "issue" where unnecessary.  Likely a town would be small enough or a neighborhood closely knit enough for it not to matter in many cases.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #167 on: Oct 8th, 2007, 7:26am »
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Somewhere back on this thread I posted about an incident, if you want to call it that, that happened to me at the new brunswick n.j. Y back in 58. So I will not repeat it. Some mothers and daughters were there. Female Y staff would also be in the pool area on occasion. I sure wish I could document this occurance for those that insist on some kind of proof but how the hell can I do that ? Got to take my word for it, nothing really exciting that I would have to make this up. Was normal and am sure it did occure in other Ys at the time. Was 50 yrs ago.  regards  LEO C.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #168 on: Oct 8th, 2007, 8:40am »
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on Oct 8th, 2007, 7:26am, leo_c wrote:
Somewhere back on this thread I posted about an incident, if you want to call it that, that happened to me at the new brunswick n.j. Y back in 58. So I will not repeat it. Some mothers and daughters were there. Female Y staff would also be in the pool area on occasion. I sure wish I could document this occurance for those that insist on some kind of proof but how the hell can I do that ? Got to take my word for it, nothing really exciting that I would have to make this up. Was normal and am sure it did occure in other Ys at the time. Was 50 yrs ago.  regards  LEO C.

 
Some will simply never believe it. Who knows why?
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #169 on: Oct 8th, 2007, 12:18pm »
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We had a 'scheduling' conflict once with our swim classes, and CFNM chaos ensued. This is all true cross my heart, hope to die.
 
Toronto, about 1960, Junior High (grades 7 to 9), guys swam naked in gym class, girls wore suits of course. The PE classes were double-periods. The guys would do their gym/outdoor activities first period, then swim the 2nd period. Girls were vice versa.  
 
The dressing rooms were separate, but opened unto a common stairway down to the pool. The PE teachers would co-ordinate the switch from girl-swim to boy-swim. Usually the girls would be finished their swim before we got to the dressing room, but from time to time they ran late, or we ran early, and as we were undressing we could hear them exiting the pool.
 
One day the teaching staff screwed up. We returned from the gym very early, and for some reason no male PE teacher was around the dressing room. We could hear the girls still splashing about in the pool. Some of the bolder guys (not me) thought it might be a hoot to run down into the pool area, naked.
 
There was a mad rush to get naked from many (most? nearly all? I forget) boys, and we scrambled out the door and started heading down the stairs to the pool area.
 
The female PE teachers at the pool were HORRIFIED at what was happening ... lol ... they started shrieking at the girls to get out of the pool, and at the boys to get back in the dressing room. I was closer to the end of the line of boys than front, so I didn't witness exactly what was going on at pool-level, but I did hear a lot of giggles and gasps and hoots of laughter.
 
The girls were led up the stairs by the female PE staff. The teachers were covering their eyes, yelling for the boys to stand aside. I do not think they were amused. Many of the girls were beet-red. Some were hugely entertained by it all, peeking out of hands held over their eyes, with fingers spread wide open. A small number were completely averting their gazes, sometimes with small grins, sometimes not.
 
Of course the guys were all standing there not covering up. I seem to recall a couple of the 'badder boys' waving their dicks around (which didn't seem appropriate to me). At that age, some of the boys were fully mature, and some were still little kids ... I was one of the latter.
 
The dominant girl reaction was one of vast amusement. It wasn't a sexual moment for them (and was for some of the guys), but it was a moment of general hilarity.
 
Afterwards I remember some of the girls saying to some of the boys (but not to me, alas) that they had 'seen them' ... the girls seemed to know even at that age that the boys would like that.
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #170 on: Oct 8th, 2007, 8:56pm »
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Old newspaper articles
 
I collected many newspaper articles from scans of newspapers hosted
online. These newspapers are almost all from the U.S. although a few
originate from Canada. There may be one from Jamaica. I split the
files among folders whose name indicates their main topic of interest.
 
CFNM: clothed female with naked male.  
female swimming
male swimming clothes
male swimming nude
swim other: contains various swimming articles that are interesting
but   do not fit into the other topics.
 
These files are PDFs and you will need acrobat to read them. These are
scans of entire newspaper pages and so have a lot of content. Use
acrobat's search function and look for words like swim, suit, naked,
nude, to find the articles on topic. Some of these articles are rather
vague on the matter of swimming nude although hint at it
while others are explicit.
 
Some observations about these articles:
Male nude swimming was accepted and enforced often in institutions
such as schools, YMCA, and other athletic centers. Although
widespread, it was not the absolute rule.
Male nude swimming was often discouraged and sometimes illegal outside
of these institutions.
Female nude swimming was practiced in some few schools amid
controversy. It also existed irregularly in some institutions.
Males and females never swam together in institutions.  
Males swam clothed in primarily female institutions such as YWCA.
Males swam clothed on days in their institutions that were open to
some larger group of people than usual, such as parents.
When naked makes swam with females, the females were clothed and this
practice only took place among family and close friends in a household.
 
 
Here is a sample image from one of the articles.
http://img162.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=86857_8376375_123_864lo.jpg
 
The articles have been uploaded to rapidshare. Due to the large size,
they are split into two groups. The first rar contains all of the
articles on male nude swimming. The second rar contains all of the
other groups.
 
http://rapidshare.com/files/61219093/swim1.rar.html
 
 
http://rapidshare.com/files/61222251/swim2.rar.html
 
 
For those who have trouble downloading or opening files, here are some programs. These are free softwares and have no virii or spyware.
 
WINRAR opens the rar files. These are compressed files like zip but it is better compression and more reliable.
http://www.rarlab.com/
 
RAPGET makes downloading from rapidshare.com easier than using a browser.  
http://www.rapget.com/en/
 
Finally, I ask a favor. Does anyone know about nude swimming and
gymnastics in East German schools? I read an article on a newsgroup
some years ago that stated that males and females were required to do
all gym class together fully nude.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #171 on: Oct 8th, 2007, 9:37pm »
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Welcome soswimming.  I am really impressed.  Where did you get all these clips?  It looks like a PhD project almost.
It will take me weeks to go through them.
Is there an easy way to open a rar file?  I've never seen it before.  I downloaded a trial version of winzip to do it.
Thanks
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #172 on: Oct 9th, 2007, 12:18am »
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cd,
 
I'm glad that you appreciate the post.  
 
There are various programs that can open rars but I prefer Winrar, which is free and easy to use.
http://www.rarlab.com/
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #173 on: Oct 9th, 2007, 4:24pm »
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on Oct 9th, 2007, 1:40pm, Rodney wrote:

 
"THAT IT HAS THE APPROVAL AND SUPPORT OF PARENTS OVER THE COMMUNITY IS EVIDENCED IN THE CROWDS OF MOTHERS AND FATHERS—550 IN ALL—WHO FILLED THE POOL BALCONY TO CAPACITY THROUGHOUT THE DAY SATURDAY, JUNE 22, WHEN THE NOVICES DEMONSTRATED THEIR PROWESS FOR PROUD FAMILIES."
 
Hmmmm....

 
You're getting ahead of things Rodney.  Soswimming specifically states that he has no evidence that the boys ever swam nude in front of parents or girls except among family gatherings or friends.
 
I note with amazement documentation that nude girls swim classes did actually occur though I am sure they are rare.  One documentation of it which is very interesting is 13819064.pdf.  Of course they had no moral problems with boys doing it.
 
Kudos again to soswimming.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #174 on: Oct 10th, 2007, 12:57am »
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IN-FUCKING-CREDIBLE RESEARCH SOSWIMMER!
 
YOU ARE DA MASTA OF DA UNIVERSE.  
 
WE'RE NOT WORTHY...WE'RE NOT WORTHY...
 
I'm serious, this is one of the best contributions ever made to this site!
 
Thanks X1 Million
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #175 on: Oct 10th, 2007, 1:42am »
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Here are some I found wherein the boys swam nude, but there appears to be family audiences invited to watch on certain days:
99945649.pdf
6538958.pdf
 
Implies a female assistant to teach:
5843325.pdf
7421608.pdf
 
There will be four expert instructors for the class, two men and two women:
6782993.pdf
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #176 on: Oct 10th, 2007, 2:34pm »
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I hear ya Rodney.
 
But given the story, and, given some of the reports by people in here absolutely adamant that it did indeed happen, I believe in that instance it was most probably a mix-gendered crowd watching the boys swim.
 
The stories some of the members have posted here of their experiences, they way they have described the situation and their absolute insistence that it did occur is not evidence in and of itself, but for me personally it goes a long way to find it reasonable that occurrences of mix-gender oversight did indeed happen.  I could easily see a situation wherein female instructors may have been given oversight of the boys at certain times as well.  Afterall, this was a different era of culture and political correctness.
 
Question for soswimmer:  There are a ton of articles, can you give us any thoughts as to any you saw that did confirm a mix-gender setting?
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #177 on: Oct 10th, 2007, 2:57pm »
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on Oct 10th, 2007, 2:34pm, Brad wrote:

Question for soswimmer:  There are a ton of articles, can you give us any thoughts as to any you saw that did confirm a mix-gender setting?

 
Soswimmer has  the most definitive post on this board on this subject, perhaps any subject.
Brad, if you look at the second set of archive pics, you will see one labeled CFNM.  There's not very many and I don't believe any documented instances of formal school or YMCA CFNM were present.    I've only gotten thru maybe 10% of the articles so far.
I tend to believe CFNM did occur rarely in schools and Ys as posted on this board by several people, but no post achieves the status of newspaper or impartial documentation.  It was certainly never the norm anywhere.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #178 on: Oct 10th, 2007, 4:20pm »
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Quote:
It was certainly never the norm anywhere.

 
It probably was, though like I said I couldn't take part because of asthma and only had other kids telling me about it.
 
The thing is, nobody much bothers to document the norm. Normal things are documented incidentally in pictures people take because their kid is there or it's some kind of personal accomplishment for them.
 
That's why nobody bothered to make a big deal of it when it was the norm.
 
I never cease to be astonished at the problem this causes.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #179 on: Oct 10th, 2007, 4:52pm »
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on Oct 10th, 2007, 4:20pm, PC wrote:

 
It probably was, though like I said I couldn't take part because of asthma and only had other kids telling me about it.

 
PC I think you're confusing naked all male swimming with my reference to CFNM swimming in public venues like schools and Ys.  All male nude swimming WAS certainly the norm as amply documented again by soswimming and many hundreds of references.  CFNM swimming in public venues was never the norm anywhere in this country though it may well have occurred in a few isolated places.  That's what is hard to document.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #180 on: Oct 10th, 2007, 8:09pm »
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Yes, probably so. Still, in rural areas it did happen and, again, it was ordinary.
 
As something like clothing optional beaches it did not exist simply because that wasn't necessary till fairly recently.
 
I'd started to remark that the best documentation for places like the Y would be the manuals and outlines of procedures and rules for each place -- which of course have largely been revised and discarded over the years.
 
I'm still thinking of the hard time convincing some persons not too long ago that such things ever happened at all.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #181 on: Oct 10th, 2007, 8:36pm »
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Well, I can state for a fact that CFNM swimming in public venues did occur!  In fact, it occurred last weekend!  I was one of the naked guys, but it wasn't at the Y, it was at San Onofre State Beach near San Diego.
 
Of course, there was also a bunch of naked ladies too.  In fact, just a bunch of naked people all over...shit, even the sea gulls were naked  Grin
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #182 on: Oct 10th, 2007, 11:12pm »
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Some of these posts are great.  Here's one that is about as close to CFNM swimming as I've found.
The article is from 1935, an upstate NY paper.
36896683.pdf:
 
Almost everybody, as a kid, remembers the old swimming hole, a wide place in the creek where you
used to strip down to the hide and skeedaddle In. I'm wondering what sort of poem James Whitcomb,
Riley would have written about the old swimming hole just off Mail street, in lower New York It isn't a
swimming hole, really; it's a trough around the statue of some somber-faced old guy and when its filled with water it is about hip deep. Daily dozens of youngsters, stark naked, splash and flounder in the
pool and yet traffic on all sides is thick as a crowd around an election booth in Jackson, Miss.
But, only strangers and columnists stare. The cops plod by, filled with thoughts of cooling beer at
O'Flaherty's bar, after knocking-off time.  . . . A squadron of mail trucks rumbles out of -Mail street
' overhead a seaplane is winging out towards Long Island, proving that the novelists know what they are talking about . . . . Life does/go on
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #183 on: Oct 11th, 2007, 5:36pm »
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Speaking of documenting things -- I believe I've mentioned this before, a documentary film:  
 
Margaret Sanger. Cobblestone Productions, Bruce Aldred, producer. NEH-funded 90-minute documentary video, 1997. Aired on PBS in 1998.  
 
To the best of my recollection, when I saw this film [on PBS, and before I was doing internet stuff!], there was a short movie clip, shown more less as background for the era in which Margaret Sanger lived, in which naked boys were to be seen swimming naked in a public fountain in an urban setting.  Is the video available anywhere?  Can anyone produce a clip from it?  
 
Or was I just dreaming, late that Sunday evening?  
 
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on Oct 10th, 2007, 4:52pm, cd wrote:

 
PC I think you're confusing naked all male swimming with my reference to CFNM swimming in public venues like schools and Ys.  All male nude swimming WAS certainly the norm as amply documented again by soswimming and many hundreds of references.  CFNM swimming in public venues was never the norm anywhere in this country though it may well have occurred in a few isolated places.  That's what is hard to document.

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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #184 on: Oct 21st, 2007, 4:06pm »
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RE: Margaret Sanger - All I could find on Blockbuster was "Choices of the Heart: The Margaret Sanger Story" (1995).  It's not a documentary but a movie.
 
Netflix's search feature is awful.  It gave 342 listings of movies, but included everything with "Margaret", "Sanger", and, tried to throw a ton of titles at me such as "Singer" etc.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #185 on: Oct 22nd, 2007, 1:05pm »
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From another board for your reading:  
 
 
Memories of Mixed CFNM Swimming
I also agree that this is totally true and happened,
because it happened at my school as well.  
 
Looking back I guess it does seem slightly odd,
because in those days you never even saw boys or men
going without a shirt even when it was really hot.  
However, it must have been traditional for boys and
men to swim naked, even in public.  
 
When I was in school, we too had to share the
community pool with the entire school which was the
middle school and high school mixed. The girls were
on one side of the pool, the boys on the other.
 
The girls wore regulation swim suits, AND a school
issued swimming cap. The boys went completely nude.
 
Before we were allowed to get into the water, we all
had to stand on either side of the pool (boys on one
side, girls on the other) and wait to be cleanliness
inspected by our gym teacher. They would rub their
finger on our shoulder, and make sure no dirt or grime
came off before we could get in. If they found any
dirt, back to the shower we had to go and use plenty
of soap.
 
While waiting for inspection, we all tried not to be
obvious but checked out the boys across from us who
were all bare naked.
 
I don't remember any of us harassing the boys about
being naked, nor do I recall any of the boys
protesting about it either. It was just the way it
was, and wasn't up for argument or negotiation.
 
I had never seen my brothers (or any boy) naked prior
to that, and I don't even remember seeing them without
their shirts!
 
Normally, nudity was never discussed or observed among
our siblings and only occurred in the swimming
pool....and only among the boys.  
 
As a 12 year old girl, my body was starting to develop
(breasts, my vagina was developing and I had a
"forest" of hair there, and my shape was starting to
develo curves) so it was very interesting to me in
checking out how the boys were developing.  
 
I noted how my older brother Joe (who was a year older
than me) actually had less pubic hair then me, while
my oldest brother Steven who was 15 had a full bush of
pubic hair and even hair on his balls that I could see
from across the pool.  
 
Most of the boys DID get erections while standing
there, they had nothing to look at except the girls
wearing skimpy swimming suits across the pool from
them. While we weren't naked like they were, we were
wearing much less than they ever saw us wearing at any
other time.
 
I thought it was fascinating how both my brothers'
penises seemed so HUGE to me.....especially when they
were fully erect. My 13 year old brother Joe's penis
curved up and pointed straight up to the pool ceiling
when he was erect, and his penis actually covered up
what little pubic hair he had. Even though I was a
year younger than him, I actually had more pubic hair
than he did. My brother Steven's penis stuck more
straight out when he was erect, and curved a bit to
one side but I could still see his full pubic hair.
 
I think we all saw every boy with an erection at
different times while swimming in P.E., but almost
always before getting into the water. I loved how my
brothers' (and all the boys') penises would heavily
flop up and down, and wildly bob all over the place
when they would walk to the other end of the pool with
an erection, yet their penises didn't move nearly as
much when they walked when they were not erect. My
brother Joe's penis seemed to bob up and down more
with the way it curved up while my brother Steven's
seemed to go all over the place when he was erect more
than Joe's did. Of course none of the boys ever
masterbated at all, but, sometimes they did grab ahold
of their manhood at different times as men are prone
to do. I think it's just an instinct that men and
boys always feel the need to touch and grasp their
manhood, even if just briefly from time to time.
 
This gave me an entire new respect for my brothers,
because seeing them naked allowed me to see what men
they were becoming instead of the little boys they
were before their manhood started developing.  
 
We're all adults now, and my brothers are both married
and I have many nieces and nephews. I am sure the
practice of the boys swimming naked with the girls has
been discontinued long ago. However, it woke up my
sexual desire for boys and men stronger than it had
been prior to swimming together in P.E. class.
 
Cindy
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #186 on: Oct 22nd, 2007, 4:16pm »
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I believe rubbin's story has been posted here before.  Needless to say that it is highly improbable that anything like this ever occurred in the USA.  Could give lots of reason's, but I think we've been thru this before.
Without any time, place etc given I will consider it amusing fiction.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #187 on: Oct 22nd, 2007, 7:30pm »
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Yeah!  I've found it listed for $150.00, though!  Doesn't seem worth it, really!  
 
http://www.films.com/id/9878/Margaret_Sanger.htm
 
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on Oct 21st, 2007, 4:06pm, Brad wrote:
RE: Margaret Sanger - All I could find on Blockbuster was "Choices of the Heart: The Margaret Sanger Story" (1995).  It's not a documentary but a movie.
 
Netflix's search feature is awful.  It gave 342 listings of movies, but included everything with "Margaret", "Sanger", and, tried to throw a ton of titles at me such as "Singer" etc.

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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #188 on: Oct 22nd, 2007, 10:51pm »
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Cindy,
 
I have to agree with cd. Did your pool experience occur in the U.S.? Also, did the boys & girls swim together, after swimming lessons were over?
I know that few, if any boys in my junior high school would have been willing to appear totally nude in front of girls, but you say that your male classmates & schoolmates all accepted it. Well, I can attest that this openness with girls certainly didn't exist in the downstate New York area, when I was growing up!
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #189 on: Oct 23rd, 2007, 6:53pm »
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In high school I was a wrestler. My sophomore year I was dropping down to 155lbs and had to spend a lot of time cutting weight and working out. This meant a lot of hours after practice lifting and running after school. The schools workout room and pool where in a building near the football stadium. The building was used by the Jr. High and High School. Also swimming classes where held there on a couple of weeknights.  Many nights I would be leaving or in the locker-room as kids would come in to change for swimming class. The locker-room was set up in a way where there was a narrow room with benches in the front of the room. Down the hall were the lockers, if you sat up front you could look down the hall all the way back to the showers. You would not be able to see anyone unless they walked out into the hall or the opening of the showers. The mothers of these young boys would sit up front and wait on them to change. There would be times when I would be getting dressed and the kids would start running in the locker-room. I would walk out carrying my bag while all the moms sat there and talked. No I never walked around naked or any CFNM happened at all. I was 15 or 16 and not really into CFNM yet. Also little kids around takes any sexual fun out of the picture. I just find it interesting dynamic and another social double standard of our society.  
 
Women where not allowed anywhere near our lockers in the school hours, but this was after hours and I was voluntary working out on my own with my coaches permission. The women where coming in to help and wait on their little kids. So no harm really but still it is the men’s locker room and you never know.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #190 on: Oct 24th, 2007, 11:52am »
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Would like to share some memories regarding the mentioning a few post back concerning the old swimming hole. The pictures you see today of people swinging on a rope, jumping off a tree or sliding down dam are pretty much like it was. In the 50s , home air conditioning and back yard above the ground pools were rare or non existant. On those hot summer days everyone got there relief from the heat and humidity by going to the swimming hole, be it a pond, lake or stream. Usually an even mixed group of boys and girls would spend the day by the water. Attendance at one of the locations was usually limited to people in your age group. And yes, we boys up to the age of 10 or maby 11 did routinly swim nude. This was pretty much the norm, quite acceptable and no issue was ever made of the pratice. Sometime approaching the teen years we all started wearing bathing suits.  
 I must also tell you that at least in my neck of the woods, girls always wore bathing suits. Never questioned why, thats just the way things were. I never witnessed or heard of an occasion when girls swam nude. To bad for them as it was fun.  
 As a side note, one section of the lake in town became very popular as a swimming hole. Some well meaning but mis guided citizens decided to form a recreation comission and provide orginization and supervision for the area. Word went out that the only place in town where you were allowed to swim was under there supervision. GOOD LUCK ! No more swinging off the rope or sliding down the dam and all boys had to wear suits. We were even expected to stay in a roped off area. Maby there intention was to stop us from swimming there, as predictiably this is just what happen. Within a week or so the place was deserted. There were just to many other places to go and there good intentions just ruined the place. Times were different and we all got along real well without adult interferance.  Times have changed!    LEO C.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #191 on: Oct 25th, 2007, 2:13pm »
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I posted this on the Photos Board, but since it is germane to this discussion topic, I'm posting it here as well.
 
This is a quick documentary clip of a large swim meet in Europe? where all the young guys are swimming nude.
 
Although there is brief CFNM in it, there are also nude female swimmers.   It appears to be a naturist piece.  It references a website www.videonat.ca.tc, which is a website for nudist pics & clips; however, I'm guessing they stole it from another source and branded it with their own copyright (sound familiar?).  Does anyone know the source?
 
 
 
 
http://rapidshare.com/files/35802387/Nude_Swim_Competition.wmv
 
What I loved about the clip is the panning of the audience from a distance showing how huge this event is. It seems a swim competition where a bunch of svelte young naked guys competing would bring a big crowd to watch.
 
In the US, you'd get mostly middle aged folks out of shape, and, mostly guys.  In this video, it is clear this is a big event attended by a ton of younger athletic types.  Cool.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #192 on: Oct 25th, 2007, 6:45pm »
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Side Note:
 
One of the best CFNM vids I seen on here was from europe. It was guys swimming a race nude while girls cheered them on. Its a movie not real, something you can rent but I dont remember the name. CFNM sites should watch that. The reaction of the girls and the way it all went down seemed real.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #193 on: Oct 26th, 2007, 2:43am »
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I have seen (and retained) a number of CFNM swimming stories from Europe, especially England.    Here is one of them, which was titled "Text excerpt from email to Vivian West, Author: Carol":
 
"I attended a private college in the south of England, which despite being mixed sex, adopted very different disciplines for boys and girls in the early 1970s.  Some classes were mixed, but many were segregated, including physical education.  By the age of 14, we girls came to find out that the boys had to swim in the nude, which meant that during their swim class, no girls were allowed in the pool area.  We girls swam at different times and wore the school uniform one-piece bathing suit.
 
But the poor boys had compulsory nude lessons, even the seniors.  I remember this fascinated us girls who were always looking for opportunities to spy on the boys during their swimming class.  Our access to the pool area was down a corridor and through a swinging door, which was “off-limits” when the male classes were using the pool area.
 
However, leading off from the girls’ changing area was a small drying room with small fanlight windows up high, which let in light directly from the daylight in the pool.  By climbing onto heavy piping on the wall and looking out, I and the other girls could clearly view almost the entire swimming pool area.
 
The boys entered the pool area where they were completely naked from head to foot and would have to stand in clear view on the other side of the pool for roll call.  We all liked this because we got to see the entire line-up, recognizing each boy as he stood shoulder-to-shoulder stark naked and facing us.  This is a very vivid and fond memory of college life.  It gave us girls brave enough to peek the opportunity to view the penis and balls on each boy in the line-up and chat and compare our favorites.  We always had a look-out for fear of our teacher catching us watching illegally!
 
I remember staring in wonder at the manhoods of the senior boys.  Being young girls, we all had our dreamboat boys in the senior and prefect years and to see them nude and in secret was a blessing from above.  While standing there naked and exposed to us, we would chat between ourselves to determine which boy, by popular consensus, had the cutest bum, the largest penis, and the biggest pair of balls.
 
This voyeurism continued right up until my 18th year when I was viewing my fellow male students swimming.  We were never caught.  We maintained a strict code of silence to be able to continue our viewing pleasures.
 
We sometimes teased our female gymnastic tutor in our senior years, as we knew she had had to teach some male swim lessons as a stand-in for the male tutor in times of sickness.  She would just smile at us knowingly and dismiss our teasing as “nonsense”.  There was also a rumor that she herself had been caught “peeping” on the senior boys by a student, but this was never confirmed as fact as far as I am concerned.
 
This was a popular conversation in our dorm room after lights out, and we would speculate as to what it must be like to have all the boys lined up nude in front of her for class.  Even now, I find the whole topic and scenario delicious.  It is great to think that I and my circle of girlfriends who went through college with me got to see the cock and balls of nearly every boy in our school thanks to a mandatory school discipline of male nudity in swim lessons.
 
It was a great lesson in male anatomy and helped me to be very confident in the presence of males in my maturing teen years.  I dated two boys from my college in my late teens, both of whom I had had the pleasure of viewing totally nude before even dating them.  I was a lucky girl.  Amazingly, some girls were uncomfortable about watching the nude boys in such a way, but most gave way to their curiosity.  Sometimes, it would be difficult getting your turn to peek.
 
As for the males, they knew they were spied on somehow and hated it.  Some girls used their intimate knowledge of their anatomies in a spiteful way.  It was a power we held over them.
 
Having read your experiences as a teacher, I was keen to liaise with you on the subject and give you the perspective from a female student’s point of view."
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #194 on: Oct 26th, 2007, 2:50am »
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And here is a story I offer for everyone who is tired of stories without specifics:
 
"I grew up north of Chicago, and went to Maine East High School.  
 
In 1960, on the first day as a Freshman at High School, it was a little overwhelming for me because there were over 5,000 kids attending. I got confused as to which class I was supposed to attend. I was still trying to read my schedule when a bell rang; all doors closed, leaving me all alone in the hallway.  
 
I panicked! I thought I should be in the P.E. class, which was a swimming class. At that time, the boys swam naked—no trunks; the girls wore suits. I ran as fast as I could, carrying seven heavy text books, down to the locker room.  
 
No one in there! My God! I thought the were all out there swimming all ready! I was late! I just knew the Coach would make a big deal when I ran out to the pool. I hurried as fast as I could. As I got to the door, I heard voices, which confirmed to me that a class was going on. I was late but, in the right class.  
 
I ran out the door when I discovered that, I was in the WRONG class! It was the GIRLS swimming class. I stood there in front of 70 girls and their Coach - NAKED! They stared at me and I stood there like a deer hit by the headlights of an oncoming truck. I let out a pathetic groan, turned and ran back to the locker room as a Tsunami of laughter crashed over my bare retreating ass.  
 
I dressed as fast as I could and after figuring out my schedule, burst into the class I was supposed to be in. Of course, the teacher demanded to know where I had been. I was so shaken up and off balance that, like a complete fool, I told him and the listening class, what had just happened. Another tsunami of laughter/humiliation crashed over me.  
 
The teacher took pity on me; told the class to calm down and said, "Well, Mr. Flaherty, welcome to High School. Undoubtedly you will be the best known student by tomorrow."  
 
For the next four years, girls would come up to me, smile and burst out laughing. I would rather have had a primer hit me between the eyes! "
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #195 on: Oct 26th, 2007, 10:32am »
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That is certainly a believable story ogden_edsl though it's not CFNM swimming by any means.  Certainly screwups did happen.
The only factual question I have is that I think it's very unlikely that the school could have had 5000 students in 1960, probably not even now.  It would have been a small suburb (Park Ridge).  Also of course most schools made a point of locking the door to opposite locker room for obvious reasons to prevent intrusions.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #196 on: Oct 27th, 2007, 12:22am »
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ogden_eds
 
Carol's story, which you quoted, suffers from a huge contradiction. She repeatedly says that her experiences took place in a private "college", yet admits that she and her spying classmates were of high school age!
In a high school environment, I wonder how the senior boys felt when the female gymnast teacher subbed for their male swimming coach? I hope they were at least prepared for her presence. If so, this would have been a great opportunity of learning to be open & secure with a woman. The teacher sure was treated; looking at 17 year old boys could hardly have been considered "pedophilia", as they were young men!
This was England; I never saw a female teacher teach nude males here, though others claim it did happen!
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #197 on: Oct 27th, 2007, 5:09am »
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to single donald
 
I am not sure the story of Carol is true, even  if it was in England but she underlines the presence of a female teacher was not the rule for swim classes of senior boys, her  female  gymnastic tutor was only  teaching boys swim lessons as stand-in  for the male tutor in times of illness, so it was not frequently, nor regular, but something possible  only in case of emergency.  Sure the  direction of the school may have tried to get an other answer more appropriate or cancel the lessons !  
 
And  I presume a private collège in England may concern boys of the same age those of a high school in the USA,  because it is not the same system.
 
for the other story  which took place in chicago, I am like CD, I don't beleive ther may be 5000 kids in a school, it is not serious.  
 
I have seen a long time  ago (at least 25 ou 30 years)  an american  movie where around twenty boys of a catholic school in the USA must swimm naked, I remember very well of that show because I was surprised, I never heard of such situations before, the teacher was a male, they were  in line in front of him first for the call and after diving one by one in the pool, it don't last very much (about 3 or 5 minutes), they had 16-17 age. No female  was present. I am not sure of the title which may be something like "twist and shout" like the song of the Beatles, and it was what we called now a teen movie.
Is anbody remenbering of that movie?
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #198 on: Oct 27th, 2007, 8:24am »
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The movie, I believe, is "Heaven Help Us".  
 
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089264/
 
[OT Aside:  If you get a chance to watch the movie, check out Wallace Shawn's hyper-zealous rant, as a priest warning the students, before a dance with the neighboring girls' school, about the theological consequences (infinite hell-fire and damnation) of adolescent lust.]  
 
-- "Crash"  
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #199 on: Oct 27th, 2007, 11:13am »
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thank you,  may be you are right for that title of this movie, I remember now it was a school in Brooklin,   but it must be difficult to find it as DVD in a store in France where I lived.
 and something disturbed me, I believe the movie was oldest.
 
as an other example of nude swimming, there is a novel  writed by Eric Segal, who was a student in Harvard school and he relates his years of student in a novel  published in 1985 under the title "the class" .  
At the beguinning of the year,  in the early  fifties, they had a  gymnastic test with a  gym teacher which they called "the colonel", the test  was  called the  bench and  was used in the army  during the war to test  physical fitnesse of soldiers,  early in the morning in a gymnasium, a dozen of new young students were completely naked and in rank and one by one, they must  go up  a  bench and then  go down  and again for several benches in lines, and always running during a certain time.  when the teacher stopped the test, they are ordered to seat on the bench and the teacher took their pulse.
After that, they went to a pool, always naked for a swimming test  and after or before I did't remember they were taken in photo stark naked, face and back to  check the state of their backbone. So, the photo of students were  keeping by the university of Harvard in a record office !
if a student became later somebody famous, it's photo naked was in Harvard.
male students were wondering about the student girls, would those had also to be naked for a gym test and taken in photo  in their birthsuite? but they had no answer about that.
It is in a novel, I don't know if it is true but it will be surprising he had make up such a story!
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #200 on: Oct 27th, 2007, 5:41pm »
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You should be able to access a selection of somehow acquired photos of the girls' posture studies here:
 
http://www.distantsoil.org/~jtidwell/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumNam e=album02
 
 
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #201 on: Oct 27th, 2007, 5:51pm »
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well, interesting but it is not CFNM, it could be if they were nakek men instead of women and the same clothed girl aside?
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #202 on: Oct 28th, 2007, 10:48am »
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Yes, it would then be CFNM but the question was whether they'd take pictures of naked girls who had to submit to the same test.
 
Believe me, if I'd found pictures of men or  both together, especially with the females clothed, I'd have provided a link without the question above.
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Re: Old CFNM swimming again
« Reply #203 on: Oct 28th, 2007, 10:46pm »
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PC,
 
Many thanks for providing us guys with eye candy; who cares if it is not CFNM?
I read a while ago that Ivy League schools used to require all freshmen, male & female, to undergo nude photos, in order to correct any defects in posture. The practice was discontinued after 1965. That last year, a freshman girl named Hillary Rodham was so photographed, at Yale. The article said that the photos wound up in the Smithsonian Institute. So, I'm impressed that you got a hold of them!
If the practice was reintroduced today, each group should consist of guys & girls. Each would observe the others, and be photographed him/herself. Ultimately, men would observe women, and vice-versa. That's my fantasy as to nude photography, in modern times!
Frankly, I don't think nakedness is necessary to correct posture!
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