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   History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
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Brad
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History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« on: Nov 22nd, 2010, 4:31am »
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As most of those that open this thread are here to download porn, this isn't it.    
 
The Stories board has had a lot of intellectual debate about this, so I've uploaded a huge research archive folder full of all of the photos, renderings, news articles, books, journals, and, websites converted to .pdf's, that have been discussed in these threads.  All deal with with men/boys sea-bathing, swimming, etc., in the nude with clothed women spanning over the past 250 years.   Although it isn't comprehensive (after all, what is?)  it's about as comprehensive a research file you'll ever find.
 
I've tried to keep the focus on *real* CFNM, not staged CFNM swim events done for Internet porn sites.  It is a compressed folder of about 315 MB in size.  You'll find videos, .pdf files, jpeg files and a lot of documentation on the subject matter:
 
Much of it I discovered through hundreds of hours of Internet searching, although some of it was also downloaded from the many blogs that are of the same subject.  I believe the full newspaper articles and the photos are all pretty legit, but I can't vouch for all of it.
 
http://depositfiles.com/files/4u0vj74fw
« Last Edit: Nov 22nd, 2010, 4:38am by Brad » IP Logged
gbog0188
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #1 on: Nov 29th, 2010, 9:53am »
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I havent seen this yet but your efforts in this post are appreciated.
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Brad
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #2 on: Nov 29th, 2010, 11:20am »
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on Nov 29th, 2010, 9:53am, gbog0188 wrote:
I havent seen this yet but your efforts in this post are appreciated.

 
Thanks.  Some misconstrue the efforts I and other made thinking it was tied to child pornography.  Those that know me and this site know it was built on research and exploration, and this was an extension of that.
 
It is somewhat cathartic to have finished the research with the above download.   We know have a clearer understanding of CFNM in the 18th and 19th centuries, and what led to the many schools, colleges and community pools that had a double-standard requirement that all men/boys must swim nude but the females are to wear swimsuits.
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Superfluous
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #3 on: Nov 29th, 2010, 2:10pm »
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I've always felt like someone needed to attempt such an undertaking, and with not much surprise it was you, Brad.  First off, fantastic effort on a assuredly hard project.  Seriously, this sort of full analysis of this incredibly mysterious series of events within the  history of Cfnm was sorely needed.  Not just because people like myself are curious about it, but to FINALLY get all the stupid arguments about whether or not it actually happened and all the rest to  cease.  I totally remember people getting into the dumbest arguments over this stuff.  It's just as annoying as the "are the women at male strip shows paid/planted" debates.
 
Anyhow, thank you again for this as well as everything you've done for all of us here on this forum.  I'd even get you a bottle Scotch for ya!  By the way, you should send me message about what you think of Aardbeg, because I'm still on the fence with the stuff.
 
Thanks!
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richardpr44
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #4 on: Nov 29th, 2010, 5:19pm »
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how do i play a "rar" file?  thx
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Brad
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #5 on: Nov 29th, 2010, 7:25pm »
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on Nov 29th, 2010, 5:19pm, richardpr44 wrote:
how do i play a "rar" file?  thx

 
Welcome to the age of new technology....
 
One does not "play" an .rar file as they are not a single file, but a bunch of files that have been loaded into a folder and compressed such that they appear to be a single file for downloading or transferring.  .rar files can consist of any kind of files lumped together - word documents, photos, videos, music, programs...just about anything you put into a file on your computer.
 
You need an file extractor.  Some Windows versions have them already.  Right click on the .rar file and tell it where to extract all of its contents on your hard drive.  You may want to create a holding folder in advance to open these files into.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #6 on: Nov 29th, 2010, 7:36pm »
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on Nov 29th, 2010, 2:10pm, Superfluous wrote:
I've always felt like someone needed to attempt such an undertaking, and with not much surprise it was you, Brad.  First off, fantastic effort on a assuredly hard project.  Seriously, this sort of full analysis of this incredibly mysterious series of events within the  history of Cfnm was sorely needed.  Not just because people like myself are curious about it, but to FINALLY get all the stupid arguments about whether or not it actually happened and all the rest to  cease.  I totally remember people getting into the dumbest arguments over this stuff.  It's just as annoying as the "are the women at male strip shows paid/planted" debates.
 
Anyhow, thank you again for this as well as everything you've done for all of us here on this forum.  I'd even get you a bottle Scotch for ya!  By the way, you should send me message about what you think of Aardbeg, because I'm still on the fence with the stuff.
 
Thanks!

 
My pleasure.   I do indeed hope that some of the debate simmers down.   The only open-ended question was the level of female supervision of swim classes wherein boys swam nude, and, what were their ages.    There's no question that, say, under 8 years of age there were family days and females present.   But then, who really cares as those boys are too young to have any reservations or issues.   The real issue was when boys were older and could be embarrassed if not humiliated by the double standards that mandated for boys to swim naked.   As of now, we've pretty much exhausted all resources on the Internet for evidence, and the blogs and discussion boards are unreliable as they are just unverified "stories" posted by anonymous sources.  So the jury's still out on that one.  Perhaps with time we'll learn more.
 
However, it appears to be indisputable that during a good portion of the 19th century, it was common for men and particularly boys to swim nude often times with females in their immediate presence.   This latter fact is one that is only now becoming something new for all of us as it was out of any of our recollection.
 
For all of you, here's some reading from different 19th century journals part of the download that was stunning to find:
 
 
Article:

 

 
 
And one more...
 

 
 
As it pertains to Aardbeg, my wallet is not so large.  I stick to the cheaper scotches, and when I can get a good single malt, I'm a happy man.  Cutty Sark is damned cheap, yet drinkable.   My theory is that after the second scotch, you sort of don't need the expensive stuff anymore... Wink
« Last Edit: Nov 29th, 2010, 7:41pm by Brad » IP Logged
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #7 on: Nov 30th, 2010, 6:10pm »
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The more I look at those pictures, Rodney, the more I think they are European rather than American, as I first did.  
 
The group is having some sort of picnic or light refreshment, with what looks to be cheese being held by the woman in the bathing suit. The other woman is off to side but seems to be holding some other type of food. There are several cans of what appear to be either beer or soda, and I cannot read the labels, though they seem somehow more European than American. Carlsberg? They have the type of pop top opening that was the early type, circa 1960s & 70s. There is a clear plastic bag beside the dressed woman holding what seem to be loaves of bread, submarine sandwich style. The more I look at that woman the more Germanic or northern European she seems to me.
 
The suited girl and her husband look more European to me than American as well.
 
Both women are wearing wedding rings, or at least have rings on the 3rd finger, left hand.
 
The more I look at the bicycle, the more European it looks. Even the sails on the boats look somehow European now.
 
...A German family have a picnic of beer, bread and cheese, and a swim at the lake?
 
The barbs on the barbed wire seem too close together to be American. Any experts on European barbed wire on the board?
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #8 on: Nov 30th, 2010, 7:26pm »
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on Nov 30th, 2010, 6:10pm, Allan_C. wrote:
Any experts on European barbed wire on the board?

 
I love this site!!  Grin  
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #9 on: Nov 30th, 2010, 7:36pm »
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I would bet those pictures are Dutch, from about 1974 judging by the hairstyles.
 
The small amount of landscape on show suggests somewhere in Northern Holland to me.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #10 on: Nov 30th, 2010, 10:09pm »
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The 3 page article a few posts above is interesting in that the image that is presented about those times today is that women were oppressed and didnt have much freedom, yet there we have a woman openly discussing in a public journal the pros of boys swimming sans clothing at public beaches and joy woman/girls get from it...
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #11 on: Dec 9th, 2010, 4:22am »
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on Nov 30th, 2010, 10:09pm, gbog0188 wrote:
The 3 page article a few posts above is interesting in that the image that is presented about those times today is that women were oppressed and didnt have much freedom, yet there we have a woman openly discussing in a public journal the pros of boys swimming sans clothing at public beaches and joy woman/girls get from it...

 
That is the feminism of the 1970s still talking today: "we are sexually exploited, so sex must be regulated (...starting with us)." As an older guy, I know quite a few women in their 50s and 60s who think now they were sold a bill of goods back then by that feminism, and see much of the result as being just another form of puritanism masquerading as liberation. It is a subtle point, but a true one; some women I know, extremely well-educated and one case a college professor who actually teacher feminist theory, deeply regret not seeing it for what it was back then.
 
Yet another way of understanding Kris Kristofferson's great line Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #12 on: Dec 9th, 2010, 6:40am »
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I think the reason for this contradiction is that female sexuality back then was suppressed, and even denied that it existed at all by society at large. The belief was that sex, and nudity, was something that could only be enjoyed by males. No one suspected that women could enjoy male nudity, thus the exposure of males swimming nude in front of women. We all know how good women are at hiding their feelings. It is just not 'ladylike' to express them in public.
In fact the excuse that the puritans, and other protesters, brought against this public show of male nudity on beaches was that it offended female sensibility. It never crossed their mind that females could be enjoying it.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #13 on: Dec 9th, 2010, 12:02pm »
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This thread should really be on the discussion side.  
 My view if I may. PURITAN, VICTORIAN, EDWARDIAN all have one thing in common, ENGLISH. We are communicating in the english language right now. Granted, the british had a lot of influence in the world at that time but there was a lot more world out there. I think we would be making a mistake if we just interpited history from what we can find just printed in ENGLISH.  
  Granted, I grew up in the 50s which was years after that journal was published but can identify, even if it is years later, with some of the points mentioned. Some things dont change over time. When I was growing up, girls were just as interested and curious about boys as they were mentioned in the article. Boys got erections in my time just as they did in the 1800s. Girls would giggle and whisper but would still be comfortable around nude boys, just as mentioned in the article. It was not a big deal.  
  Where I grew up, it was a melting pot of different nationalities and I recall few if any people identifying them selves as british or english. An exception would be my aunt who was a war bride. All were from all over eastern and western europe, so we were not restricted to comply with left over british morals. To me, the journal hints a bit of upper class people of the time trying to enforce their morals on everyone else and the writer is thumbing her nose at them, admitting that the females actually enjoyed being around nude males
  One thing that particuarly stands out in that journal that stands out to something similiary in my memory is the mention of the boys getting an erection and not caring. When I was 14, I happen to be put in a situation where I was nude in front of a girl who was a classmate. I got a raging erection and after my initial embarrassment, was quite proud to have that baby up for her to see. Was probably the first one she ever saw. She just smiled and continued on with our conversation.  
  Hope this post made sense.   LEO C
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #14 on: Dec 9th, 2010, 4:57pm »
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 JIBBO, what would you consider SOLID EVIDENCE from before the turn of the last century?  
 Photos do exist from the early 20 th. century. Not to be offencive but it appears you have not really been around.  LEO C
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #15 on: Dec 10th, 2010, 7:25pm »
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Well, good evening to you, too.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #16 on: Dec 10th, 2010, 8:30pm »
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on Dec 10th, 2010, 6:15pm, jibbo wrote:
Im truly sorry if I have offended anyone here but sometimes you have to offend people to get them to listen!
 
You believe what you have is solid evidence that during one of the most sexually repressive era's of history, a time when it was an outrage for a woman to bare her ankles and a man to leave the top button on his shirt undone, that it was acceptable for men and/or boys to walk around stark naked on a public beach and even get an erection in front of females if he felt aroused by their presence. Well Im sorry mate but I dont beleive it not one little bit! and all the psuedo scanned ancient documents in the world wont convince me because it simply is NOT true!!
 
I know that this is going to be my last post and it will probably be removed after I have been booted off this site but many of you on here are in serious need of some help and I only hope to god that you get it before its too late!!  
 
Like Ive said time and time again I dont want to offend anyone but there have been many people in white coats sitting on the floor in a rubber room banging their heads against the floor trying to figure out why the hell they are in that situation!
 
PassionGuy. None at all my friend! in fact this post your reading now doesnt even exist, in fact you dont exist either!!
Such is the sorry state of mind of many of the members of this board and that is where I rest my case!

 
Now you are showing your true colors and your intention for being on this board. It is obvious that you have no interest in CFNM whatsoever, and in fact find it offensive.
Of course some of us have noticed this about you a long time ago, especially by the way you address us as "your fetish" in several of your posts.
I am in favour of free speech, and certainly nothing wrong in being skeptic or challenging certain statements, but your intentions go way further than that, as you have shown in this post.  
You are free to go on with your anti-CFNM crusade, but please do not hide behind false pretenses.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #17 on: Dec 10th, 2010, 8:52pm »
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on Dec 10th, 2010, 6:15pm, jibbo wrote:
Im truly sorry if I have offended anyone here but sometimes you have to offend people to get them to listen!
 
You believe what you have is solid evidence that during one of the most sexually repressive era's of history, a time when it was an outrage for a woman to bare her ankles and a man to leave the top button on his shirt undone, that it was acceptable for men and/or boys to walk around stark naked on a public beach and even get an erection in front of females if he felt aroused by their presence. Well Im sorry mate but I dont believe it not one little bit! and all the psuedo scanned ancient documents in the world wont convince me because it simply is NOT true!!
 
I know that this is going to be my last post and it will probably be removed after I have been booted off this site but many of you on here are in serious need of some help and I only hope to god that you get it before its too late!!  
 
Like Ive said time and time again I don't want to offend anyone but there have been many people in white coats sitting on the floor in a rubber room banging their heads against the floor trying to figure out why the hell they are in that situation!
 
PassionGuy. None at all my friend! in fact this post your reading now doesnt even exist, in fact you dont exist either!!
Such is the sorry state of mind of many of the members of this board and that is where I rest my case!

 
Simmer down Jibbo.  No one is going to boot you.  You're not posting out of maliciousness or trying to rip into anyone, you're just posting something you believe - which unfortunately insinuates we are liars.
 
All I'm saying is to first read the rules about challenging someone.   Calling anyone's post as being baseless is wrong unless you yourself have evidence, and you do not - and it's clear you do not have any real deep historical knowledge of that period that would warrant your having a credible opinion (certainly not one wherein you could criticize the veracity of others.)   You are also claiming I and others are making a statement about men walking around naked with erections as being acceptable then.  Come on, do you *really* think we're saying that?  It was just ONE document I found combing over thousands and thousands, and struck my eye as being extremely peculiar, which is why I took not to it.  Again, had you downloaded any of the many links we've posted (one had about 200 .pdf newspaper articles) you would have a much better sense of where we're coming from.  You have neglected reading anything from that period that's been posted.   One book alone that is quoted a number of times on the other board was written by a well-researched historian who discusses how most men and boys swam nude, then cites 78 direct references to then-current news articles, journals and writings fo the period.   These ARE evidence, and many of those references were also posted and can be downloaded in their original form (such as full newspaper pages.)   If you're too lazy to read them, great - live in ignorance...just shut the f#@k up and not call any of us more knowledgeable people liars!
 
Fact - up until about 1860, virtually all men and boys swam stark naked at the beaches around the UK and Europe as well as elsewhere.  Women also swam naked in mixed-gender settings up until the late 1700s.   It had to do with perceived health benefits of "sea-bathing", but that's long discussion already posted on the other board.  The puritans intervened leading to segregated beaches based upon sex, which in turn lead to bathing machines, which are discussed in great details on the other forum.    
 
The contradiction between the conservative Victorian standards and the fact that men exposed themselves at the beach while swimming was noticed in the newspaper columns of their day as well - it was a contradiction they questioned even back them, but it was a fact.  Of course, had you been involved in the research and many, many posts on the Discussion board and other forums you'd have read those original news articles and writings downloadable in their entirety.  You'd also have read the many articles and books published during that and later periods evidencing all of this, and why it came about.  You should start with Jane Austen's documented accounts if nothing else (again, this is not new to the members that have been following the posted evidence links.)  There's even discussions about naked male sea-bathers having conversations with nursemaids at such beach resorts as Hove and elsewhere.
 
In addition, there are many period paintings and photographs showing boys swimming naked accompanied by the presence of clothed girls.  One Syracuse paper in 1880s discusses how an American was angered when his daughter was confronted by "crowds" of naked boys at UK seaside resorts, and an English friend told him they let their daughters play with the naked boys of up to 10 years in age, but draw the line at 15 (the entire original newspaper page is posted on the other Board and in the download link.)
 
The problem we've continually had in posting photos and paintings depicting CFNM in the 1800s that involve boys is that there are lurkers that have them taken down from the file sharing server wrongfully claiming they are kiddy porn (you will see the many photo links taken down on the Discussion board).  They've only been posted because of naysayers like you.
 
It of course angers me and others when we go to great lengths to educate ourselves then contribute evidence to this board only to have those ignorant to the subject matter calling us liars because in their limited experience, they've never seen or read anything that would convince them of it.    
 
Again, I'm wasting time explaining this to you.  I've earned the right to be taken credibly by the members as those following know the great lengths I've gone to give us as accurate a picture as possible as to CFNM in the 18th and 19th centuries.   If anyone doesn't agree, don't call us liars, instead, don't be selfish and lazy - do some homework and research before you bitch.
 
And on a final note, after saying all the above and proving we have continuously posted the evidence you demand (but are too lazy to find), then saying we have not posted such evidence, WHO is now lying?
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #18 on: Dec 11th, 2010, 5:20am »
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Jibbo, we are not discussing whether CFNM is a fetish or not, no one is disputing that. But we are offended by your remarks that "for some it has become an extremely unhealthy obsession" and that we need "professional help".  
You also say "Many of you seek CFNM in EVERY POSSIBLE situation! you look for it in the past, you look for it in schools, you look for it in the military, you look for it in crime, you look for it in medical situations, you look for it absolutely EVERYWHERE! and you always seem to find it even when it is blatantly not there!"
Are you saying that these situations never happened in these institutions, and were even common in some, and still going on in some? I am afraid that you are out of touch of reality and suffer from a bad case of denialism. Maybe it is you who should seek professional help, not us.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #19 on: Dec 11th, 2010, 8:07am »
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You know, Jibbo, for a person who professes, as I believe you do, to be a professional writer, you certainly have a thin sense of human nature, especially human sexual nature.
 
Brad has provided extraordinary scholarship about the history of CFNM in the 18th and 19th centuries, a feat for which most of us are quite grateful. (I have trouble understanding why you do not too, unless you really have not read what he has put on this board about it.) But in a sense, I found it almost unnecessary, because it seems to me intuitively obvious that CFNM is one aspect of human sexuality that has appeal to at least a large minority of men and women today. (CMNF does too.) And since I do not think that our core sexuality has changed dramatically over the ages (although the mores of how we express it, and especially how much of it we acknowledge, does change somewhat across time and cultures), I would bet a lot that it has provided titillation for scores of thousands of years, perhaps all the way back to the beginnings of homo sapiens for all I know, or maybe back even to within homo erectus.
 
You, on the other hand, seem (to me) trapped in a notion that whatever is publicly acknowledged and politely agreed to by society at large is the end-all and be-all of what is true about society at any given time. So if the Victorians in public professed great restraint in sexual displays of all types and varieties, and called anything else deeply immoral and wrong, then, presto, it is true -- they all acted that way! And they all believed that way! And no one did otherwise!
 
Which of course is utter nonsense, as anyone alive today can easily see. Just consider the huge number of widely known sex scandals, like Bill Clinton's, or Jimmy Swaggart's. Or, to stay in Victorian times, by considering Aubrey Beardsley or Oscar Wilde. People say one thing and do another about sex every hour of every day of the week.
 
So for me your viewpoint, if I understand it, comes back to either your pulling our collective leg, or your having a few too many before you start typing, or, perhaps most likely, you just cannot accept in yourself, for whatever reason, that you groove on CFNM. Yes, that is pop psychology, but what other possibilities suggest themselves?
 
That you are in fact an expert about European barbed wire?
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #20 on: Dec 11th, 2010, 11:24am »
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on Nov 30th, 2010, 6:10pm, Allan_C. wrote:
The more I look at those pictures, Rodney, the more I think they are European rather than American, as I first did.  
 
The barbs on the barbed wire seem too close together to be American. Any experts on European barbed wire on the board?

 
Due to the odd way that images tend to show up here, in picture number one, the barbed wire fence on top of the berm is what popped out first.  
 
My thought is the picture is of some far eastern European outing near a lake, instead of a seashore.
 
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #21 on: Dec 12th, 2010, 8:01pm »
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BOARD RULES
 
8.  No flaming or verbal attacks on anyone else or this board is allowed.  Constructive criticism can be delivered without offending, and we all know how that works.  Questioning the veracity or legitimacy of anyone's post must be done tactifully and in a nice way, and please be prepared to evidence why you believe there's a question to be raised (as opposed to "everyone knows it's not true"...you AREN'T "everyone").
 
I and others have presented, literally, hundreds of web links, historical documents, newspaper articles of the day, books, treatises, photographs and artistic rendering by artists of that era.  
 
Jibbo - you clearly violated this rule as well as others in other threads.  Your attacks were neither polite nor positive, just angry posts claiming we make this stuff up when in reality it is you that have nothing backing up your aspersions.  From the many, many posts on this matter inclusive of much documented evidence, it is clear - at least to me - that you are not educated enough on your own country's history to legitimize your opinions - at least as it pertains to the subject matter of this thread.   When you say we have not presented evidence when others know the many hours I contributed in that regards, it is not us that are making things up, it is you.  
 
If you now say "I will probably be banned", it only becomes a reality if you persist in this, and you seem to be doing that.  I've tried to persuade you to be reasonable and not post incendiary things, but you resist.  Thus, if you want to be banned, I'll make it so.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #22 on: Dec 12th, 2010, 10:15pm »
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I don't know what the truth is here.  I certainly never heard of anyone swimming naked in front of anyone from the opposite sex in childhood.  I deleted the original file because I don't want any pictures of naked underage kids on my computer, which I wasn't expecting to see in the first place.  But there some people that for whatever reason have this tremendous emotional investment in believing in this happened almost to the point of validating their lives so no one is going to convince them otherwise.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #23 on: Dec 13th, 2010, 6:33am »
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Jibbo, I am also a history buff, and I assure you that what they teach us in history books is just the surface. What really went on in societies, which we call social history, is barely mentioned in official versions of history, and most of it is left out.  We only get a glimpse of it from the personal biographies and autoboigraphies of some famous, and not so famous people.
For instance, did you know that Lord Baden Powell, the founder of the Boy Scouts, used to visit the boys camps and photograph boys swimming in the nude? He had a vast private collection of thousands of these nude boy swimming photographs which he exchanged with friends.  
Do you know that Lewis Carol, the author of Alice in Wonderland, and other wonderful books for children, had a hobby of photographing nude underage girls? You can still see these historic photos on the Internet about this famous man, and also in his biographies.
I also suggested a book on another thread about what went on in Victorian times, which is documented with genuine photos and documents, but is never mentioned in history books. It is called "The Other Victorians" which came out in Britain in the 70's I believe. I don't know if this book can be found on the Internet today. But it is a good insight into Victorian social-sexual life.
Like I said in a previous post, your attitude of "this never happened" and "this is all false and imaginary " is a very narrow minded view based on ignorance and denialism.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #24 on: Dec 13th, 2010, 11:41am »
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Well, then maybe Lord Baden Powell and Lewis Carol were child molesters, or child molesters at heart.  I think this is a creepy subject.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #25 on: Dec 13th, 2010, 11:53am »
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Again, I believe the challenge of this thread was that I posted a carbon copy of it also here on the Photos board.
 
The many discussions/documents/evidence showing a stark contradiction between the overly-conservative mores of the Victorian era that diametrically opposed some clearly established CFNM situations were over on that board.    
 
Unfortunately, we are now finding those that believe they understand history better because of something grandma said or what they see on television.  
 
My bad - I shouldn't expect to see enlightened posts on this board...best just to stick to pictures, which is why people are here and not posting with deeper insight.   Undecided
 
And for Anon, while it is true that many of us do have a passion for historical things, particularly as they pertain to CFNM, the flames here are ones that have surfaced in many threads, which is why I created the Rule #8 many years ago.   It is why we get upset - that is, folks coming in and attempting to destroy work and effort of others that contribute to this forum based upon their arrogance that they are more knowledgeable than they are (after all, the one that started this sources familiarity with his grandparents and movies as justification for the attacks.)   I know this may come as a disappointment to you as it deflects another one of your attempts to criticize those of us that had made such efforts by claiming it was solely based upon a dubious obsession as opposed to something more fundamental.  Of course, this is not surprising because over the years you have stood out among others as being one that prefers to criticize and attack as opposed to contributing anything of value to this forum - it's defines you more than anything else.  
 
This forum started as an exploration of the many forms of CFNM replete with a ton of research into each, which in turn, had some part in naming the eroticism.  The forum was meant to be one of education and an invitation to women to learn and become involved, but I know, I know, it then became a conduit mostly for men-only to share porn, which is what we find on the Photos Board more than the Stories Board.
 
If we are to keep any vestige of intelligent thought and reflection, we must encourage contributors to do research and post, and those that come on here and arrogantly display ignorance while attacking the contributors - particularly when they themselves do not contribute - must either shut up, or permanently leave the site.  And if they won't do that on their own, we'll gladly help them.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #26 on: Jan 3rd, 2011, 5:47pm »
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Excellent link, I learnt about Jennifer Garner's Galoshes. Cheesy
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #27 on: Jan 4th, 2011, 5:37pm »
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Great post, Brad. Apart from photos and paintings of the era there are many accounts of whole groups of boys regularly swimming nude in city harbours, public park ponds and other public places both in America and Britain at least up to the early 20th century.
I also had to delete links showing boys swimming nude at camp with clothed female leaders because some bigheads complained that it was not proper. It seems that only pornography is acceptable as proper on this site.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #28 on: Jan 5th, 2011, 3:30am »
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on Jan 4th, 2011, 4:30pm, Rodney wrote:

Ever notice that NONE of the male muppets ever have ANY clothes on whatsoever, yet Miss Piggy is ALWAYS wearing a dress?
 
Hmmmm......

 
Q: Why can't Miss Piggy count to 100?
 
A: Because when she gets to 69 she gets a frog in her throat.
 
badda bing, badda boom!  Grin
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #29 on: Jan 28th, 2011, 3:29pm »
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Boys naked at outdoor swimming pools was still the norm when I was stationed in Frankfurt, Germany in the mid-1980s.  I don't think I ever saw a boy under 8 years old at an outdoor pool that wasn't naked.  Granted, most girls and women were topless at outdoor pools, but ALL young boys were naked.  I saw two things that stick out in my mind.
 
Once, a boy that looked almost 10 was walking in the grass with an erection.  He was definitely the oldest boy I ever saw naked.  Two 12 or 13 year old girls were making fun of him (in bikinis, with tops on).  He just gave them a bunch of lip right back and went on his way.  Didn't try to cover up at all.
 
Another time, I saw a woman with two kids, by the pool, walking toward the locker room.  The woman was wearing a one piece bathing suit, covering her top.  The kids were following behind her.  One was a boy of about six, who was completely naked.  A girl of around four was wearing panties.
 
The girl started to take off her panties, and the mom grabbed her, smacked her on the butt, and pulled her panties back up.  Naked wasn't even an option for the girl.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #30 on: Jan 28th, 2011, 5:09pm »
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on Jan 28th, 2011, 3:29pm, phoenixfkk wrote:
Boys naked at outdoor swimming pools was still the norm when I was stationed in Frankfurt, Germany in the mid-1980s.  I don't think I ever saw a boy under 8 years old at an outdoor pool that wasn't naked.  Granted, most girls and women were topless at outdoor pools, but ALL young boys were naked.  I saw two things that stick out in my mind.
 
Once, a boy that looked almost 10 was walking in the grass with an erection.  He was definitely the oldest boy I ever saw naked.  Two 12 or 13 year old girls were making fun of him (in bikinis, with tops on).  He just gave them a bunch of lip right back and went on his way.  Didn't try to cover up at all.
 
Another time, I saw a woman with two kids, by the pool, walking toward the locker room.  The woman was wearing a one piece bathing suit, covering her top.  The kids were following behind her.  One was a boy of about six, who was completely naked.  A girl of around four was wearing panties.
 
The girl started to take off her panties, and the mom grabbed her, smacked her on the butt, and pulled her panties back up.  Naked wasn't even an option for the girl.

 
Great observations.  We should bear in mind this is close to a century after the era being discussed in this thread.    Jane Austen wrote about how the Baths in England, which are ancient Roman baths that were refurbished during the Victorian era, were once enjoyed by men in the nude, but because there was mixed-gender bathing, a rule was passed that all boys over 10 years must wear suits; however, all boys under 10 would still bathe nude in the public areas.
 
But I don't want this post to be about focusing on nude young boys - it's not what it's about, and frankly,  I think all guys that are part of groups like NAMBLA should be shot.   This is about how society has historically embraced CFNM as it pertains to girls and boys in public venues.   And, to repudiate those that claim such embracing is fictional simply because they have limited knowledge on the matter.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #31 on: Mar 14th, 2011, 10:28pm »
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A while back there was an article from an old travel journal whereby a woman was advocating allowing the boys to swim naked at the beaches.   In my search for more imagery of "boys swimming naked" while in the presence of girls, I stumbled upon this old photo:
 

 
The boys in this photo are in their teens.   Her smile evidences she enjoys flirting with these completely naked boys that may be half her age.   I'm sure she and the author of that article would have a great time together at the beach.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #32 on: Mar 15th, 2011, 3:38am »
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on Nov 29th, 2010, 7:36pm, Brad wrote:

 
For all of you, here's some reading from different 19th century journals part of the download that was stunning to find:
 
 
Article:

 

 
 
And one more...
 

 

 
Definitely fakes. I checked with a librarian at Yale, who says that no such journal as "Traveller's Monthly Journal" ever existed. There's incorrect grammar -- "As for me and my daughters" -- that is contemporary to our times, and not the nineteenth century. There are spacings before the starts of the sentence that are indicative of computer-generated typing, rather than actual old-fashioned typescript, which would not have wasted that much space. There is use of quotation marks to indicate irony, which is a modern usage. And this is all just from the first image.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #33 on: Mar 15th, 2011, 5:37am »
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on Mar 15th, 2011, 3:38am, cleanpenguin wrote:

 
Definitely fakes. I checked with a librarian at Yale, who says that no such journal as "Traveller's Monthly Journal" ever existed. There's incorrect grammar -- "As for me and my daughters" -- that is contemporary to our times, and not the nineteenth century. There are spacings before the starts of the sentence that are indicative of computer-generated typing, rather than actual old-fashioned typescript, which would not have wasted that much space. There is use of quotation marks to indicate irony, which is a modern usage. And this is all just from the first image.

 
I am not disagreeing it is a fake, but your sources are not convincing.   First, not all journals, treatises or news rags become recognized to where they are archived at major libraries.   All one needed was a printing press and they were in business.  I've tried to locate a number of older news journals at UCLA that were local to where I grew up, but they did not have them on record.
 
You indicated that "as for me and my" was not a term used in the 19th century.   You're wrong on this -  
 
Joshua 24:15  
 
15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.”
 
Deseret News- Feb 14, 1885
 
"...to come back and seek the patronage of this people after doing so of coarse I have no right to speak for the community: but as for me and my folks...."

 
Evening Independent - Apr 10, 1908
 
"This would have brought a crowd outside, the guard there would have been and, as for me and my brave men, we would have been shut up here like rats In a ..."
 
There are ways to distinguish between typeset and typewriter script, as you've pointed out.  However, both computer and typescript use inconsistent spacing (I use to set type), whereas a typewriter uses exact spacing, so I'm not sure how that makes this document fake.  
 
As it pertains to the other matters, I disagree as with the previous matters, it appears you are speculating (guessing) about these things rather than having a solid basis.  If you want to see quotes used in a satirical way, just read some of the old commentaries and newspapers from the 19th century, and you'll see plenty.  
 
Again, I'm not confident about the origin of this document, but I don't think you've identified anything to where you can state for a fact it is fake.
 
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #34 on: Mar 15th, 2011, 12:24pm »
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In my personal opinion, the Magazine article was written in a Victorian manner.   Probably British.  But, aside from that; let's ask the ultimate question:  would any woman allow her daughter to be in the presence of nude boys.  Your first instinct would say no;  but all evidence says that women might think it's healthy to learn about 'male anatomy'  in  a non-sexual environment.   Finally,  documents could be altered in areas where it's not readable.    
 
Now, don't get me wrong: I still believe that most stories on the internet are fake.   I don't deny that.   But, still, alot of stuff is true.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #35 on: Mar 15th, 2011, 12:44pm »
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Brad, if you used to set type, then you know that the space between sentences is usually equivalent to a letter or two, as opposed to a tab stop. And it wasn't just that the journal isn't archived, but that the Yale librarian searched for any and all references to it and couldn't find anything. That's on top of the scan itself looking like a photo manipulation rather than a clean modern scan of an actual old paper. But if it's really authentic, all that's needed are actual documentation, right? Where was it found, so that someone can replicate the discovery? I would love for CFNM swimming to have been practiced regularly in the past, but it wasn't, which is why there are so few references to it, and the ones which exist are in question.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #36 on: Mar 15th, 2011, 2:56pm »
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on Mar 15th, 2011, 12:44pm, cleanpenguin wrote:
Brad, if you used to set type, then you know that the space between sentences is usually equivalent to a letter or two, as opposed to a tab stop. And it wasn't just that the journal isn't archived, but that the Yale librarian searched for any and all references to it and couldn't find anything. That's on top of the scan itself looking like a photo manipulation rather than a clean modern scan of an actual old paper. But if it's really authentic, all that's needed are actual documentation, right? Where was it found, so that someone can replicate the discovery? I would love for CFNM swimming to have been practiced regularly in the past, but it wasn't, which is why there are so few references to it, and the ones which exist are in question.

 
First, I appreciate skepticism and doubt, and I wish others would take heed as to how they challenge someone's story or post.   Yours was delivered with reasons and observations as opposed to "everyone knows", or "it's absurd" without any support for saying that.
 
However, your observations make no sense.   I don't know where you came up with your knowledge of typesetting, but I'd get your money back from that school.    The challenge with typesetting was indeed the spacing between types, and it was particularly challenging when the column was both right and left justified.   Type spacers are metal wedges that came in dimensions that are basically the space of a full letter, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8 - so the spaces were rarely "a letter or two" as you imply, let alone a standard as you claim.   The spacing between both letters in a word, the words themselves and after sentence periods were painstakingly adjusted to fit the justified width and never consistent.   It is why when the typewriter was invented you never saw typed documents that were right-justified, and the spacing was constant.  
 
I'm not a forensic document examiner, but the document looks identical to just about all other printed documents during that time, which were almost always right and left justified.   I pulled out of my archives the following one as way of example a 19th century news article (although I have many others, I don't have the time to continue to make this point).  It's the London Daily Mail, thus, you should believe this one is not fake:
 

 
As you can see, the type is inconsistently spaced, and the spacing at both paragraph indentation and between sentences, which is consistent with the times, is also very consistent with the document in question.
 
Also, if you read this paper, you'll see numerous examples where words are put in quotes to emphasize, often with satire.   You indicated this was never done in the 19th century, but in the very first one I grabbed I saw where it was done many times.   This again calls into question whether you have an expertise in this, or simply guessing at these things implying you are an authority in such matters which you clearly aren't.  I don't mean to come down on you, but if you challenge the veracity of someone's post, don't act like you're an expert when all you're doing is making stuff up through uneducated guesses.
 
As it pertains to archives. although we are all impressed with Yale, it is not the repository of all documentation in history, and I frankly would be surprised if they indeed had records of local rags that one couldn't also find on Google.
 
Look, again I'm not saying challenging is wrong, particularly when it is delivered with arguments as you've done.   But don't make it sound like you're an authority on things - instead, phrase it like "I would think...", "It would seem...."
 
Regardless of the authenticity of this document, I say stick of fork in it, it's done.  I've spent too much time of this subject matter for this board and want other members to step up and contribute to the research (as oppose to just challenge it) before I spend more time on it.  Good luck!  
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #37 on: Mar 15th, 2011, 5:09pm »
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on Mar 15th, 2011, 12:44pm, cleanpenguin wrote:
Brad, if you used to set type, then you know that the space between sentences is usually equivalent to a letter or two, as opposed to a tab stop. And it wasn't just that the journal isn't archived, but that the Yale librarian searched for any and all references to it and couldn't find anything. That's on top of the scan itself looking like a photo manipulation rather than a clean modern scan of an actual old paper. But if it's really authentic, all that's needed are actual documentation, right? Where was it found, so that someone can replicate the discovery? I would love for CFNM swimming to have been practiced regularly in the past, but it wasn't, which is why there are so few references to it, and the ones which exist are in question.

 
My reaction to your points is, in a word, baloney. Much of this ground has been trod over so often it is hardpan. Your points about type setting are simply wrong, and the fact that someone from Yale couldn't find something with both hands is not convincing either. I do admit that I am somewhat prejudiced in my opinion of your points partly because of this statement: "I would love for CFNM swimming to have been practiced regularly in the past, but it wasn't, which is why there are so few references to it, and the ones which exist are in question." I am old enough (70) to have experienced it fairly regularly when I was growing up, and to have heard about it occurring in my own family (from my grandmother and grandfather) during the latter part of the 1800s. I have concluded a long time ago that many of the doubters of CFNM swimming are simply young people who have grown up in cultures that have changed too much from those of the past for them to understand and accept those situations. So, please state your age.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #38 on: Mar 15th, 2011, 9:15pm »
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Wow. It sure is hard to refute an argument that comes down to the word "baloney." Look, the whole reason why this argument will never be laid to rest is because the evidence doesn't exist, and I personally distrust historical evidence that can't be verified. If it can't be replicated -- other people can't find the same evidence, people who have supposedly discovered the evidence can't say where and how -- then it probably doesn't exist. If you or others think that Yale librarians are idiots, that's no skin off my teeth, but please go ahead and find actual evidence that, for example, this journal ever existed. It's totally possible that it does and I definitely agree that different cultures do things differently at different times, but it's strange for something so relatively recent to have no historical record. If it turns up, I will actually be glad, as the lack of evidence isn't something I'm happy about, it's just a statement of fact.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #39 on: Mar 16th, 2011, 4:06am »
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on Mar 15th, 2011, 9:15pm, cleanpenguin wrote:
Wow. It sure is hard to refute an argument that comes down to the word "baloney." Look, the whole reason why this argument will never be laid to rest is because the evidence doesn't exist, and I personally distrust historical evidence that can't be verified. If it can't be replicated -- other people can't find the same evidence, people who have supposedly discovered the evidence can't say where and how -- then it probably doesn't exist. If you or others think that Yale librarians are idiots, that's no skin off my teeth, but please go ahead and find actual evidence that, for example, this journal ever existed. It's totally possible that it does and I definitely agree that different cultures do things differently at different times, but it's strange for something so relatively recent to have no historical record. If it turns up, I will actually be glad, as the lack of evidence isn't something I'm happy about, it's just a statement of fact.

 
Once again, how old are you?
 
PS Once you get to a certain age, and you have heard it all before, the best counter argument often turns out to be "baloney". Or, to be more loquacious, the tenor of your arguments is boringly similar to many others that have been refuted time and again on this and other boards. Nit pick if you must, but I will not waste my time on helping you out of your confusion; for that, you'll have to help yourself.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #40 on: Apr 2nd, 2011, 3:49pm »
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Preface
 
Following is more documentation in our growing archives evidencing that it was not uncommon for boys and men to be completely nude at public beaches in a CFNM context with women present during the 19th and early 20th centuries.  We have Bobby_Bare to thank for alerting us of these historical film archives.
 
Those criticizing all of what we've presented as being fake fall into the garden variety cocktail party in-your-face know-it-alls that are too lazy to open a book or ever educate themselves, yet will never let that stop them from pompously act like an authority calling other people's contributions fake - typically using some type of bizarre reason or ignorant assumptions they garnered from probably watching TV.
 
And to dispel the criticisms sure to come (which have been silly in the past)-
 
- No, the nude men/boys in these films don't have costumes on painted to look like they're naked for effect
 
- No, these aren't fake films made recently to look like they're old
 
- No, these aren't computer graphics from Pixar made to look like real footage
 
- No, these aren't films of nudist colonies in the Victoria/Edwardian times - they didn't have them back then.
 
- And, despite your pending claims "if this were real they'd be in HD digital with closeups", the movie camera wasn't manufactured until the turn of the last century, so these are as early as it gets, and we're LUCKY to have this amount of evidence, and no, there was no Best Buy to get those Sony cameras yet (no, really!  look it up!)
 
 
Archived Film
 
After watching all 42 videos of an old archive, I found about 9 that show naked male bathers at the public beaches.   I downloaded them all and converted them to .avi format, then edited out the superfluous video.  Finally, I spliced together the best video into a single documentary film of 5 min 34 sec in length and 51 MB in size.
 
I uploaded it so here it is for your permanent archives:
 
http://depositfiles.com/files/sg2q2xr1p
 
 
My comments:   The treatises, journal articles and published accounts are consistent with this video.  Although some come from later in the early 20th century, most are from the post-Victorian/Edwardian era before WWI.
 
We now know from the scholars that prior to this period, most boys and a good number of men swam naked when at lakes and at the beach while the women were conservatively attired.  This trend began to wane out as it became more customary for adult men to don bathing suits after about 1870, but many boys did not do the same until the 20th century.  As can be seen from these vids, even during the 19-teens up until WWI, there were some beaches with hundreds of boys up until manhood with about half being naked.    During the period of this video, you can see things are changing as most men are seen wearing bathing costumes when in the presence of women - but, not all.  
 
The accounts in the book I posted wherein at some stretches of beach in the UK and Europe, men continued to swim nude despite customs and laws prohibiting it, even with women present.  About 20 seconds into this video, it pans a beach from atop a precipice packed with both men and women.   It took me a long time of looking at video captures and zooming in, but there appears to be nude men swimming.  One appears nude as when he spun around you can clearly see a dark spot where his cock is as compared to the skin color of the rest.  Here's the photo - you be the judge (click on it to see enlarged):
 

 
And if you don't believe that picture shows him naked, just a couple of seconds later it *clearly* shows a naked guy wading in knee deep waters past a two women in a group.  As he passes them, one of the girls says something to him and they exchange friendly words, and as he keeps on walking by, you can see she continues to gawk at him watches him walk around not taking her eyes off him.  This again seems to fit in with the 19th century news columns discussing how the women would gawk at the nude men, even look at them with "opera glasses" to see certain body parts in detail.   This was because the conservatism of the Victorian/Edwardian eras denied such visual  opportunities, and thus, according to various accounts, the women were sometimes unabashed iin going to the beach to see the naked men (before you criticize this assertion, download the many news articles written in the period I've uploaded first, THEN make comment). Here's the video cap:  
 

 

 
At about 1 minute into the video they show the beach and the beach tents used to change in.   It's a mixed gender crowd.  A few moments later at 1:19 minutes it shows a group of boys and men thrashing about, every one completely nude (again, this is a public beach with women right there):
 

 
At about 1:39 minutes there is a beachfront with dozens of people in the water, primarily both boys and girls with some adults.  You can see that there is a curtain up concealing the female tents such that the females have privacy entering the waters.  However, the same tent area for the boys are not so protected as the film shows females on that side too, although no males can be seen on the female side.   You can see some of the boys going into the water completely naked wherein they are together with the girls.  It goes to the theme of this thread - it was unacceptable for boys to even see the knickers of a girl; however, it was perfectly appropriate and sometimes even preferred by the women that the boys would be stark naked from head to foot when in the immediate presence of their girls.  Here's a vid cap:
 
 

 
If you watch closely, at at 2:16 min you see one boy in the far background in water just above his knees.  He appears to be early teens and is nude.
 
Later at about 3:15 minutes, it pans a large beach/bay cover with hundreds of people.  They mostly appear to be males of varying ages, and given their heights, were smaller boys up to young men.  Over half are completely nude.   This corroborates a general attempt to keep the genders separate, the reasons for which are in many previous posts and primarily because many Victorian conservatives didn't like naked men being in the presence of women.  However, there were never any fences or established marker lines between them preventing the inter-mingling of genders, which was common - particularly on the male side.  For boys going to the beach with their mothers and sisters, when sequestered to staying on the female side, they would be attired no differently than if they were on the male side - typically naked, although girls above toddler age were never nude (we view babies and toddlers as irrelevant because they have no social consciousness of being nude and thus embarrassd).  
 
The film then shows some closeups of hundreds of boy running by the camera with about half being naked.   It should be noted that despite the quasi-separation of the genders, accounts of the day indicated that at seaside resorts in the UK and Europe, these areas sometimes overlapped.  And naked boys as old as 15+ are documented to be around clothed girls their age.  In one account in 1896, one book reported that "...at the public bathing station on one beach in Hove, actually Brighton’s respectable neighbouring resort, ‘men and women bathe together’ and there were ‘naked men talking to nursemaids..."  Thus, the questions wasn't if older boys were nude, but if that also included grown men, and in some situations, the answer during the Victorian era was unquestionably yes.
 
Here's some vid cap evidence.  The video shows such an area wherein two girls well into their teens or even older are wearing their costumes and are surrounded by boys (hence, the inter-mingling at this beach).  Two of the boys are naked and one appears to be about their age, 11 to 13 or so:
 

 

 
The video goes on to show outdoor swim classes at a pool which is not hidden and surrounded by wooded area.   Most of the boys are naked, the girls (separate class) are clothed.   As the years progressed, the ratio of nude boys to clothed boys diminished in such open pool areas, as can be seen with some of the older boys wherein only about 20% are naked at these meets.  However, what it evidences is the casualness the establishments had about boys of all ages being naked during such activities as there was no concern about the openness of the swimming area and lack of fencing that would prohibit on-looks from adjacent property or the woods that border these swimming areas from having full view.
 

 

 
 
All this must be kept in context.  I disagree with any contention that norther European coastlines were different than others in Europe or the UK; rather, every country had areas and beaches that were more prudish than others.   Also, by the time the 20th century rolled around, *all* beaches were transformed considerable wherein men wearing suits was far more expected.   But because these videos were shot circa 1912 to 1919+, it shows that even then there were remnants of an earlier CFNM culture at such beaches.
 
 
Given that there are administrators that feel these depictions of nude men of all ages should be removed, this post may soon be deleted.  It puts us in a Catch-22 - readers demand proof/evidence, but when you post it, it's deleted, then the same readers claim it's all fake because there is no evidence.  So get it while you can.
 
Btw, to those deleting these, it should be noted that these are considered "G" rated films.  There is nothing illegal or hints of being about kiddy porn - they're not - it's just that those that object the loudest are often trying to conceal their own internal desires in such disgusting perversions.
 
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Allan_C.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #41 on: Apr 2nd, 2011, 4:06pm »
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Excellent write-up, Brad.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #42 on: Apr 3rd, 2011, 7:00am »
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What an incredible film!  It is a must see for any doubters over nude mixed-gender swimming. The archival footage of period architecture is also interesting as it definitely rules out a "hollywood - type" reproduction for a comercial movie.  
 
Brad, you amaze me sometimes. Thank you ever so much for all the work you have done in this thread. I have enjoyed it tremendously.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #43 on: Apr 3rd, 2011, 3:27pm »
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on Apr 3rd, 2011, 11:56am, Rodney wrote:

I took a few more video caps of this scene to show the dynamic at play:
 
 
 
Whether the woman on the left was actually gawking or not, or if she was merely exchanging pleasantries with the naked man, is for you the viewer to decide. My point as always is that in that era, there was nothing remarkable at all about a grown man swimming nude in a mixed crowd. It was fully expected by both male and female beachgoers alike that nude men and boys would be present.

 
Thanks for the appreciation Hooked6, it's nice to get such feedback.   But much of what I've discovered and posted on this board has come to me through our members, such as Bobby_Bare who provided the link for this film archive.   The articles such as some of the Dear Abby and Dear Ann letters as well as that controversial piece from the Traveller's Journal were also downloaded from other blogs such as Topix.
 
But I will say I've spent hundreds of hours of my spare time combing through historical news archives, reading books on the era, etc, most of which has been uploaded to a file sharing host and presented to everyone - all I ask in return if for people to download those archives and read the same volumes of material I have before coming onto this forum and criticizing the veracity of my and others' post as being fake - all the while demonstrating they are less educated than the average member on this board (although they think they are far more intelligent than the rest of us).
 
Rodney - yes, exactly.   It is rare footage indeed clearly evidencing a casualness about nakedness of boys and men at these seaside areas during the Victorian/Edwardian period, and even past then.   Yes, we all agree it was a stark contradiction to the conservative dress demand of people, particularly women of the day (as can be seen in the same film just uploaded).   But isn't that why it makes the double-standard and contradiction all the more poignant?   You have societies that condemn women from wearing a blouse that is not inflated or a skirt that, god forbid, exposes the ankles as that would be immodest.   Men too were *supposed* to wear bathing costumes that covered the entire body, arms and legs as the more fashionable seaside resorts.    But despite the women complying with such conservative dress code, there were many seaside resorts in the UK, Europe and sometimes elsewhere where men and particularly boys would strip of their conservative clothing and and enjoy the beach stark naked from head to foot all the while in the presence of women, and this film indeed confirms what we've been saying all along.
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Re: History Archive - CFNM in swimming/beach
« Reply #44 on: Apr 12th, 2011, 5:46pm »
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I found this posted on Yellow Fever's board, and traced down the respective videos (thanks to original poster).   They are more films from the post-Victorian/Edwardian Eras.
 
These are in addition to what has been posted before.  They are from the film archive of the National Library of Sweden.  Although they can be viewed streaming on the Internet, they cannot be download with such things as the Firefox Realplayer aps.  Thus, I had to use a commercial video capture software, Snagit, to capture the videos.   Snagit does not provide good quality captures, so if anyone has any tricks to get a better quality video download, please let me know!
 
If you want to see the video streaming directly on the Internet, go here:
 
http://www.filmarkivet.se/sv/Sok/
 
Click on "Sport och fritid" (Sports and Recreation), and move the time meter to about 1910, and click on "visa filmtitlar" (View Film Titles).
 
Alternatively, you can download the videos I captured of it for your archives.  They are edited down to just the scenes showing CFNM swimming and/or boys swimming in the buff:
 
Video - "Teenage Boys Lake Swimming - 1912", avi, 81 MB:
http://depositfiles.com/files/ag7hca3r0
 
 
Video - "Boys & Girls Open Lake Swimming - 1927", avi, 81 MB:
http://depositfiles.com/files/ui1lh14xr
 
The first film is consistent with much of what we read, and that is, not only did a good portion of boys swam nude in the open, but many were older.   In it, you can see some of the boys are older with full pubic hair (seen better from direct streaming).   This speaks to the woman in the traveler's journal discussing how when viewing the attributes of some of the nude boys she could tell some were approaching "the threshold of manhood", ergo, she was able to see pubic hair on the boys.  There are no females immediately present as I can see.
 
The second video shows children playing together in an open lake.   All girls are clothed, but at least half the boys are naked.   At one point in the distance, you can see the tallest of one of the boys is indeed nude as well, and he appears to be 10 to 12 in age.
 
This latter film speaks to a point that many have refuted, and that is, they claim it was unconscionable that swimming classes wherein the boys are nude but all the girls are clothed could be held together.   Although it appears that gender separation has always been the norm at public schools and the YMCA, this film once again proves that in certain European swim areas in the early 20th century,  the typical CFNM dress of where all girls wear swimsuits but many, if not all, boys swam naked - at the same time and together - was indeed a common scenario back then.
 
The age upon which boys don their swimming trunks when girls their age are present seems to be about 10-12 in the film.   But this age limit was constantly moving downward to where in the 19th century, grown men did not wear trunks in the presence of women to, say, 1960s onward, where it was uncommon for any boy that was over, say 5, to go sans suit when in the presence of girls.  The question as to whether there were actual female instructors overseeing swim classes where boys swam nude is still debatable.  But as this film shows, there indeed was a time and place where not only were women present while the boys swam naked, but girls their same age as well.
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