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   Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
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Allan_C.
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Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« on: Jul 24th, 2010, 7:46pm »
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This most enduring of subjects...
 
These three pictures are included in a series of pictures purportedly showing Welsh cub scouts swimming nude under the auspices of female cub leaders who encouraged the boys to nudity. Also, a local girl in attendance.
 
 
I cannot personally vouch for these pictures, but if someone created them as a hoax, it is certainly an elaborate one. Most of the pics are of boys swimming or otherwise playing nude, and most have comments by the poster who is, again purportedly, in the pics himself.
 
Worth browsing through the series if one is interested in this subject, because to my eye they seem genuine.
 
 
(Malibug) Alan, I have removed your pictures because they are of children!!! please think how much damage this could do before posting in future. Frankly I find them quite disturbing and even more disturbing is the fact you see nothing wrong with posting them!
 
« Last Edit: Jul 25th, 2010, 2:53am by malibug » IP Logged
Logan
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #1 on: Jul 24th, 2010, 8:38pm »
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umm nude child much??
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #2 on: Jul 25th, 2010, 12:52am »
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nice...
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #3 on: Jul 25th, 2010, 3:55am »
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"(Malibug) Alan, I have removed your pictures because they are of children!!! please think how much damage this could do before posting in future. Frankly I find them quite disturbing and even more disturbing is the fact you see nothing wrong with posting them! "
 
I have seen those pictures on another forum and I find nothing disturbing about them since they have no hint of sexuality whatsoever. I think Allan's whole point was the way male nudity for boy scouts in the old days, especially swimming, was widespread in many places and no one saw anything wrong about it, even as in some cases as shown here with female leaders and supervisors.
But I get the point, and you may be right, that some people might interpret them wrong since this is a sexually oriented forum. Though I repeat they only show innocent CFNM nudity and no hint of sexuality whatsoever about them. I think it is best to comment on this subject without showing the pictures themselves.
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #4 on: Jul 25th, 2010, 9:57am »
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Malibug, I do not know what to make of your post!. And for that matter your action.  
 
First, I did not post the pictures on this website, only the links. You removed links, not pictures.
 
Secondly, the pictures were utterly sexless. They were of boys swimming. Nudity per se is not sex! Over the years there have been hundreds of naturist web sites showing nude adults and children, and no one considers them pornographic.
 
Finally, and most importantly, you may (somehow) be unaware that there has been a debate raging on this board for years now about whether or not it ever transpired in the past that adult, clothed women supervised in some institutionally sanctioned way nude boys during swimming (as at the Y). I have noted in these discussions that such was my personal experience growing up. Others have claimed such things never happened, and say there is a complete lack of proof of such happenings. Well, those pictures whose links you erased are such proof. No wonder there is no proof if folks like you keep erasing the evidence!
 
Malibug, I have been an active contributor to this board more or less since its founding.  I have absolutely no desire or intent to harm it.  In that spirit I disagree strongly with your action. As I said, I did not post pictures. I posted links to another web site entirely which showed pictures of nude cub scouts swimming, den mothers and a clothed girl of the same age, all going about their lives in a more innocent age.
 
And I resent the impression you have left that I posted some sort of child porn. I am as against such a thing as the next person. Furthermore, I told readers up front, before they clicked on the links, what they were in for. Had anyone done so they would have seen pictures clearly dating from an earlier, innocent time. We have certainly had such links before on this board, for instance several of them directed at Life magazine photos being auctioned on ebay of boys and men swimming nude during the 1940s, a recent set of pictures showing women watching nude male swimmers, etc.
 
In the future, when the subject of past nude swimming with clothed female instructors at the Y once more surfaces, and someone claims there is a complete lack of proof of such matters, I guess I will have to point to this thread as the reason why.
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #5 on: Jul 25th, 2010, 10:40am »
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I saw the photos at the link and they were non sexual and harmless.
 
I understand the paranoia that surrounds pictures of naked children, we have been conditioned as a society (and only in the last few decades) to view any and all nudity as sexual when that is anything except the truth.
 
The website that hosts those pictures is a legitimate website as far as I know so I doubt the pictures were illegal. If they were I'm at a loss to imagine why.
 
Family nudist sites have many pictures like those because they are not sexual,just nude.
 
I just wanted to make it clear that Allan C did not post a link to anything that was sexualizing children.
 
From the comments attached to the pictures it was clear that the boys loved it and there weren't any sexual remarks to be found at all.
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #6 on: Jul 25th, 2010, 11:13am »
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I looked at the links in question before they were removed, thought they were harmless photos, and didn't think there was cause for alarm about them. But I did think that the nudity of the boys seemed odd with shirts on and nothing on their bottoms, that if the photos were altered with Photoshop, it would have been easier to remove just their shorts and not all their clothes.  
 
After the links were removed, I'm wondering if there was cause for concern in this litigious society and where there is always some scandal in the news over child pornography. Cetainly some children are getting abused and that is a crime, but sometimes people overreact and sometimes child protective agencies get overzealous too. I myself find the links posted as innocent enough, with young boys in the care of women old enough to be their mothers and probably with all the protective instincts of mothers. But who knows, maybe we need to be more careful so that no one gets the wrong idea.
 
Is there a lawyer in the house? We may need some legal advice, perhaps a legal disclaimer to post everytime we post anything about childhood nudity.  
 
The reality is that all us adults here have been children at one time and weren't born with clothes on as far as I know, so that we have experiences and fond memories of being cared for by women, that we would like to be able to discuss sometimes. None of us have been abused that I know of, but if they did they they haven't discussed it here, and certainly anyone who advocated child abuse would be run out of here fast.
« Last Edit: Jul 25th, 2010, 11:24am by Woodster » IP Logged
lazarus
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #7 on: Jul 25th, 2010, 12:26pm »
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I think you guys are missing the point: Of course these pics aren't of a pornographic or even erotic nature. They're pictures of naked children in a perfectly natural setting (at the beach and at some kind of camp site). The kids are so young that their nudity, at least to me, has nothing to do with CFNM: A little boy naked at the beach with his clothed mother isn't CFNM in my book. Nor does it prove any of the stories I personally have allowed myself to doubt (but that's a different discussion). But – and this is the point: The material generally posted here is of an erotic nature. CFNM is an erotic thing to most of us. To say that pictures such as these are natural, non-sexual and perfectly legal (all of which is true) only begs the question: Why post them then? In this particular case you could argue that Allan C posted those links as part of the ongoing nude swimming debate – and that they were relevant as such. I'm willing to buy that. But the general claims that we live in an age which is hypersensitive to nudity, paranoid as hell when it comes to pictures of naked kids, and so on and so on ad infinitum – well, these claims are neither here nor there when it comes to THIS forum. As I see it this isn't a general discussion forum where people are free to post pictures of anything from vintage cars to naked kids. It's a sexual fetish board more than anything else (the mass of pornography which makes up the majority of all posts in the photos section would certainly indicate that I'm right). In that context pictures of naked children don't belong. It ain't that hard to grasp, is it? The question isn't if these pictures are illegal, pornographic or even slightly dubious. It's whether they belong in a context such as this or not. And in my opinion they don't. Not least because they are – precisely – pictures of naked children. If they were pics of vintage cars you could write them off as off topic and be done with it. Malibug is obviously concerned about what kind of crowd such pictures could attract. And he's right to be concerned.
 
I'm no cop and I don't aspire to be one either. In principle I think anyone should be allowed to post whatever he or she likes – as long as it's on topic and not illegal. In my opinion, however, children have nothing to do with CFNM, which to me is a sexual concept to begin with. That would make these pictures off topic in my book. Not illegal, but of no interest in a CFNM context.
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #8 on: Jul 25th, 2010, 12:33pm »
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It is not illegal to show pictures of nude children as long as they are not engaged in sexual activity or posing in a provocative or sexual manner.
 
However this website is a SEX website! which ever way you look at it this site promotes and advertises pornography. The members of this site share an interest in a sexual fetish which is a mild form of female domination and male humiliation.
 
Try explaining your way out of that if the authorities got onto it!
 
The only sure thing involving children that would not be brought into question is the public nudity of adults in front of clothed children. As long as there were no sexual activity or provocation involved.
 
examples:  
uk tv series "The Sex Education Show"
bay to breakers pics all over the internet
movie's "A Fish Called Wanda" and many others
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #9 on: Jul 25th, 2010, 2:16pm »
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Lazarus, you wrote:
 
  Quote:
...In this particular case you could argue that Allan C posted those links as part of the ongoing nude swimming debate – and that they were relevant as such. I'm willing to buy that....

 
Thank you for that. Then later you added:
 
Quote:
....As I see it this isn't a general discussion forum where people are free to post pictures of anything from vintage cars to naked kids. It's a sexual fetish board more than anything else (the mass of pornography which makes up the majority of all posts in the photos section would certainly indicate that I'm right). In that context (emphasis added) pictures of naked children don't belong... The question isn't if these pictures are illegal, pornographic or even slightly dubious. It's whether they belong in a context such as this or not. And in my opinion they don't...

 
It seems to me you get tripped up by referring to this board by the generality ("sexual fetish board") and then saying it is mainly sexual photos that appear on the board. True enough for most of one half of VSFW, but the pictures of the nude kids are not sexual ! As just about everyone who had a chance to view them has said, they are as innocent and natural as one would expect from an earlier era. Yes, one board is mainly photos, but we also have a discussion board, in fact one half of VSFW is nothing but discussion, and the photo section has a lot of it too. But more to the point, it was in the context of quite recent discussions that I decided to post the links (not pictures, links) that I did to make the point -- to provide the evidence, as it were -- that you and a few others have said is lacking.
 
In a very recent thread, "Were females at this naked swim meet?" you said the following:
 
(http://board.sensations4women.com/vsBoard/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=cf nm;action=display;num=1278169684)
 
Quote:
...The reason I find these stories – let's be diplomatic and say – so remarkable is that we have such a wealth of testimonies from people who lived (and swam) at the time which all state clearly that while naked swimming was common enough it was absolutely unthinkable for a woman to be present at such events....The instructors/teachers were all male and any female presence would have been entirely unthinkable.That latter statement is what I've gathered from all older guys I've ever talked to about this subject: To them, a female teacher, instructor or spectator would have been as unthinkable back then as it would be now. Sure, there was a different attitude towards male nudity with regard to swimming classes – but the general taboo which may be summed up by our four favorite letters CFNM was the same. They swam nude – but they would've been severely embarrassed if this activity had been witnessed by any members of the opposite sex.

 
Our discussion then was about Y and similar institutional swimming situations. The Cub Scouts aren't the Y, but they are close. I was in the Cub Scouts myself when I took those first, woman-supervised nude swim classes. Both are institutions. The pictures I linked to were in my judgment of roughly the same era, and thus to my mind prove what you say you cannot accept -- the past institutional use of women supervising nude boy swimmers, and the looking on by at least one girl of similar age.
 
That is why I posted the links. As I said in my opening piece, anyone who was interested in the discussion could go check out the "evidence". Anyone who was disinterested could skip it. Furthermore, there are many, many comments by the man who posted them explaining what was going on, who the boys are (by name), what the various women and girls thought or said about the matter, etc. Exactly on topic for that discussion on this board.
 
To all readers of this post:
 
I am afraid this whole subject has become a mountain made from a molehill.  
 
For those who have not had the opportunity to see those pictures, I assure you they are obviously of boys at play and enjoying it. Nothing more.
 
I specifically, with conscious intent, did not post pictures, but links, with a clear explanation as to why and in what context I was posting them, and with clear labeling of what one would find there upon clicking the links.
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #10 on: Jul 25th, 2010, 7:49pm »
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We're back at the old nude swimming debate, then? Allan: My point is simple enough: This is a forum dedicated to what you may call a sexual fetish. The posts made in this section are almost without exception either pornographic or at the very least erotic. The interest our members have in said posts are also of a sexual or an erotic nature. This goes for non-pornographic material as well: We don't download clips posted in the Hollywood section because we're damn interested in European film. Neither do we watch clips from that naked bikeride event because we're damn interested in bicycles. The focus of nearly everything said, done and posted in here is, in a word, sexual.
 
The pics you linked to were NOT sexual – if anyone thinks they were they are  mistaken. The pics were, in themselves, perfectly innocent. But in this context, in a forum like this one, pictures of naked children could very well be taken the wrong way. Not because the pictures were sexual, but because the context is. That, I imagine, was our moderator's concern too.  
 
Now, as I've already said – it's clear to me that you posted those links in order to prove a point. The pictures, from your point of view, were relevant to our little debate about nude swimming. Given both the innocence of the pictures and the clear intention behind posting the links I can understand why you're upset with Malibug. But at the same time I understand him, being a moderator here, very well: Naked kids are a goddamn can of worms whichever way you look at it.  
 
As for the debate which refuses to die...well, speaking for myself I have never doubted any stories about young children being naked around women or girls. The stories I find hard believe are about much older boys than the ones in these pictures.
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #11 on: Jul 26th, 2010, 10:26am »
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And as I said, Lazarus, the pictures I linked to are not sexual as anyone can see (if they are allowed to click the links, that is). Generally speaking, in this life it is important to see with one's eyes rather than one's fears, to acknowledge what one is seeing, to not be buffaloed by extremists, and sometimes, alas, to defend the obvious.  
 
Nor is everything posted here sexual.
 
Further, neither you nor Malibug have acknowledged that what I posted was not pictures, but links. One had to leave this board to see the pictures. They were never resident on this board. I suppose if I really gave a damn, I would wonder what would happen if I posted a link to another board which itself contained a link to the pictures. Would that be upsetting to Malibug? How about if the link were thrice-removed? Ten times removed?
 
I have no idea where Malibug stands on all this. He posted a separate note earlier, I believe, in this thread explaining himself, but it seems to have disappeared.  
 
It is worth noting that nothing in the Rules for Posting bans what I did. On the other hand, there is a clear statement in those rules as follows:
 
Quote:
This forum is not intended to be a place for members to rack up reward points through file sharing hosts.

 
Yet, several members are doing exactly that. CyberGoddes is particularly egregious here because he uses exclusively a file sharer, Sharing Matrix, which is seldom usable at all to its non-members, and when it is usable prohibits downloads of > 400K to non-members -- and the majority of CyberGoddes' posts are > 400K.  Also, very few are CFNM to begin with, yet he is one of the most active posters on the entire VSFW! So it would seem that a vigilant moderator would have plenty to do when it comes to banning, other than links to pics of kids that clearly look like they were taken in the 1950s or 60s (the photography, haircuts, clothing styles, etc).
 
I will admit however that I am sure moderating can be a tedious and often thankless job. Further, I have been the grateful recipient of much good work by the moderators on this board. This is not a rant against moderators, the moderators on this board or even against a specific moderator, although in this one instance I do think a moderator over-reacted.
 
Finally, you said:
 
Quote:
The stories I find hard believe are about much older boys than the ones in these pictures.  

 
That, at least, is enough progress for me to call it a day.
« Last Edit: Jul 26th, 2010, 10:31am by Allan_C. » IP Logged
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #12 on: Jul 26th, 2010, 1:23pm »
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He, well: Glad to be of service, I'm sure (he said, not knowing exactly what his service had been).
 
Just clarifying one last point:  
 
"The pics you linked to..."  
 
"...you posted those links..."
 
Now, those were the words I used, my good man. I know you didn't upload those pictures yourself - and that's why I put it like this: Not "pics" but "pics linked to" or simply "links".  
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #13 on: Jul 26th, 2010, 4:51pm »
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on Jul 25th, 2010, 7:49pm, lazarus wrote:
 
As for the debate which refuses to die...well, speaking for myself I have never doubted any stories about young children being naked around women or girls. The stories I find hard believe are about much older boys than the ones in these pictures.

 
There are in fact pictures which show much older boys swimming with some females in the background. But then the hard sceptics will come up with the excuse that they are photo-shopped. However I have seen sets of old photos which show females barely visible in the background at indoor pools with male nude swimmers. If these photos were photo-shopped the author would not have made the female presence so unubtrusive and almost unrecognisable. One must remember that when these photos were taken in the pre-seventies era they had no CFNM in mind and so any women apearing in them would be accidental and of no importance to whoever took the photos. In fact many such photos have the edge area of the spectators clipped out because they are not of concern to the main subject, that is the males swimming nude.
But I will not post the links here for one simple reason. There are lurkers, and sometimes pretending members, on sites such as this whose sole aim is to get such links and then post a complaint or press the 'objection' button where such linked photos appear. This has happened several times whenever I and others posted links because they get deleted a few days after from the linked site. This in fact has already happened on the photos linked by Allan here, if one goes back to that link one will see that there is a notice on them saying "album taken down for inspection". This is a public site where people post their personal albums and in fact no photos of a sexual nature are allowed, but unfortunately anyone can press the objection button and have them removed for inspection, even though they are not of a sexual nature. It seems that this anonymous crusader objects only to male nudity because many such albums have been taken down on this said site and others but not any showing female nudity. And all after the links to that site have been shown on this and other forums.
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #14 on: Jul 26th, 2010, 5:19pm »
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This crusading guy must be from the Anti-misandry brigade because he only objects to photos, and also written account posts, which show or describe situations of naked males in the presence of clothed females. I have seen him attack such posters on other forums calling them fantasy and BS. Of course he doesn't do it on this forum because he knows it will be to no avail and getting him banned, although he may do it here in a more subtle way.
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #15 on: Jul 26th, 2010, 6:11pm »
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Interesting discussion, should be moved to the discussion side as it will disappear rapidly among all the posed/ fantasy, paid for links.  
  Did not get the chance to see the photos but judging from the comments would seem to be nothing out of the ordinary, especially for the 40s-50s-60s. Was never a cub scout but do know that they were more or less run by DEN MOTHERS. Dont think any boys would have a problem swimming nude in front of the den mothers and perhaps a daughter or two that had to be drug along. Scouting was supposed to be a fun thing for boys and swimming was fun.  
  Was probably a tough call for the moderator. Off the top of my head, can remember pictures on this site, boys jumping off a bridge, off a dam, bathing in the GANGIES, young boys at a boys club pool, YMCA pictures to mention a few. Lots of people always want proof, are not satisified with someone telling them these things did occure. When the pictures do show up, they claim them to be fake.  So in the end, why bother posting them? Things change and unfortunately a new presidence is in place so the opertunity is gone.  
  In the novel 1984, WINSTON, the main character was employed by BIG BROTHER to rewrite history to suit whatever the prevailing policy was. Might come a time when the STAZI come knocking on your door to remove any nude pictures of your children that might be in your family album. Would think any publication, print or electric, has got to be careful of what they provide or provide access to. Am surprised that the ANARCHIST COOK BOOK is still available on the net. Books like HOME WORK SHOP EXPLOSIVES and MEDICIN CABINET EXPLOSIVES, published by an outfit called LOMPONICS are no longer available. GOVT. put them out of business. Times have changed, we just have to get use to it.  
 
  Sorry for the subject drift, I do that a lot.  LEO C
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #16 on: Jul 26th, 2010, 6:24pm »
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It would be good to see this board get back to it's roots and scrap all of the commercial femdom/strap on crap that infests it. I simply stay of of the femdom and sadist topics as they are far removed from my purpose in coming here which is what this board is all about.
 
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #17 on: Jul 26th, 2010, 7:12pm »
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 My feelings also. Is rare when I click on anything in the photo section. Most is made up posed situations. My feelings are that if you have to pose things or make them up, you are waisting peoples time. On the other hand, post do get a lot of hits, must appeal to someone. Who am I to question?
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #18 on: Jul 26th, 2010, 7:19pm »
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on Jul 26th, 2010, 6:24pm, freeed54 wrote:
It would be good to see this board get back to it's roots and scrap all of the commercial femdom/strap on crap that infests it. I simply stay of of the femdom and sadist topics as they are far removed from my purpose in coming here which is what this board is all about.
 
Spammers never enrich anything they get near.

 
This side of the forum is not just about Femdom but mostly of the handjob/blowjob theme. At least the femdom variety gives some amusing breaks from the endless hj's and bj's, though neither of them interests me. I have only seen a handful of the topics on this side of the forum just for curiosity and I am mostly on the discussion/story side where it is more sane, though admittedly it is more slow. I suppose pornogaphy, of whatever kind, is a best seller everywhere and those out for a quick buck or attention know this.
I agree with Leo that this discussion thread should have been on the other side of the forum.
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #19 on: Jul 27th, 2010, 9:56am »
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Here is a set of old photos, with much older boys, which in some of them show hints of females being present watching the nude males.
The author has a much bigger album on same subject but they are locked, that is password protected, in other words one must get the password personally only from the author who posted them himself.
 
http://imgsrc.ru/fkk-lover/a501249.html?
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #20 on: Jul 27th, 2010, 2:26pm »
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Actually, I thought two of those pics, Bobby_Bare, definitely include women in the background -- specificially the several boys diving backwards, and the two boys diving forward (lanes 4 and 5).  
 
But you and Leo are right. Those who cannot believe or who have taken a public position that it is all a bunch of lies will either call the pics fakes, or narrow the definitions of what they said in the past to skirt the current evidence, or just plain avoid the subject entirely.
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #21 on: Jul 27th, 2010, 3:23pm »
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Maybe I should get my eyes checked out because I cannot see one single female in any of those pics!
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #22 on: Jul 27th, 2010, 3:50pm »
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I see one, jibbo. She's right in the foreground too. And she's naked. These look like nudist pics to me. I don't think anyone, not even the most hardcore skeptics, will deny nudists occasionally swim naked.  
 
(second to last pic – clearly a woman on the left)
 
It's not uncommon for people of both genders to be clothed at nudist facilities, so the possibility of someone having captured a CFNM moment in such a context is more than plausible. But it's hardly relevant to the debate. I mean, seriously, what do you guys expect? That the skeptics all concede and applaud because of some random pictures which could have been taken anywhere in the world under God knows what circumstances?
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #23 on: Jul 28th, 2010, 4:12pm »
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Quote:
It's not uncommon for people of both genders to be clothed at nudist facilities, so the possibility of someone having captured a CFNM moment in such a context is more than plausible. But it's hardly relevant to the debate. I mean, seriously, what do you guys expect? That the skeptics all concede and applaud because of some random pictures which could have been taken anywhere in the world under God knows what circumstances?

 
Out of curiosity, Lazarus, since you don't accept pictures or the testimony of posters on this board as proof....what would you accept as proof?
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #24 on: Jul 29th, 2010, 12:27pm »
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Heres something you may all find interesting.
 
http://www.undresswithphotoshop.com/
 
Allan_C very graciously pointed me in the direction of the first pics mentioned on this subject matter and as soon as I saw them I could see they had been shopped!
 
I have no reason to disbelieve what Allan says about his own experiences as a cub scout during the war years or just after, and Im sure that what he says happened to him is quite true!  
 
I was also a cub scout in the 70's around the time the original subject photo's were taken. Living in the North West it was easy to travel across the border into Wales with our troop for some great holidays which I remember well.  
Colomendy and Parc Mawr Scout Camp in Rowen where the most popular destinations and had some fantastic scenery. However on our trips there were very few females and usually those that were there were in their 50's or even older, working in the canteen etc, and scouts were certainly NOT encouraged to wander around in a state of undress, in fact it was severely frowned upon! I remember one hot summer we were fishing, or trying to fish, with those silly nets we used to buy which were on the end of a long thin pole and a couple of us had taken our shirts off and tied them around our waste. When Akela saw us he told us to put them back on as we were setting a bad example! we were then told to return to the huts and stay there till tea time.
 
Im not here to piss on everyones strawberries!! I like the cfnm scenario as sexual fun and games in a healthy happy and controlled environment, but I do not stretch the fantasy out once the real fun is over, something I fear that many members on here will do because it is there only way of getting any satisfaction from this fetish.  
 
I have commented on this thread because I believed it was open for debate and believe that if you have a forum dedicated to such a subject then they should all be open for discussion with arguments for and against!
but if you think that Im just annoying people and turning the lights out on fantasies then please just say... "hey jibbo give it a rest fella Ive got a wilt on now!" then I'll gladly refrain from sticking my nose in!
 
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #25 on: Jul 29th, 2010, 1:30pm »
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Jibbo, I clicked on your link and to be honest I was not impressed with the quality of the photo-shopped pink panty picture. Among other things her vulva was misplaced -- it was higher on her groin than it should be, for instance. And I had similar problems with all the other instances presented. When copied and blown up, they were clearly fakes.
 
In the set of pictures I posted links to there are over 40 pictures. Most of them show some degree of nudity. Several of them show five or six boys or more at the same time. When I inspected them by downloading and enlarging them, them dithering them and enlarging them further, I saw no misplaced, mis-colored, or improperly shadowed or lit anatomy. Some are so distant as to be fuzzy, but no more nor less fuzzy than surrounding detail. None show the obvious fakery of the pictures you posted.
 
Because of 1) that analysis, and, 2), the huge amount of effort someone would have to put into photo-shopping so many pictures, only to have been left with an indistinct & poor visual quality result, and, 3), because of the comments from many posters accompanying most of the pictures, some of which attested to their being in the pictures themselves -- because of those three facts, I think they are not photo-shopped.
 
Also, as you noted, I mentioned in a private email reply to your request for links to the pictures, that I was in the Cub Scouts during the 1940s. Our pack was almost entirely run by women, and there was at least one overnight camp I remember when the boys got undressed with women supervising. Also, and to my mind, much more embarrassing today, was the fact that we cubs participated in "minstrel shows", to raise money I guess for our pack activities. This was sort of a vaudeville show the cubs would put on in a hall for mainly the families of other cubbies and a few others. This show involved, believe it or not, at times dressing up like girls in dresses and having makeup applied to our faces, and at other times dressing up like African-Americans and having blackface applied. We were only seven or eight years old and didn't know what we were doing, but to this day I find that blackface part deeply embarrassing. All of this was supervised and run by the women who led the pack and at times backstage we were nude as we dressed up in the various costumes. Believe it or not -- I barely do today -- I remember having to wear panties -- girls panties, no fly -- for authenticity. In any case, the point is that during my own experience as a cub scout I was nude and supervised by adult women not my relatives (though mainly the mothers of other cubbies), although none of it involved swimming that I remember as part of pack activities. However, it was at this age I went to the Y to learn to swim and had clothed adult women teach and supervise us as we swam nude.
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #26 on: Jul 29th, 2010, 2:51pm »
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Sorry Allan but I didnt post any pictures.  I posted a link to a website that shows you how its done. There are literally hundreds of sites showing how to take a picture of a clothed person and make them look naked, there are even video tutorials!
One site will even do the work for you, for a small fee.  
 
The queueing for food pic is the most obvious! the colours do not match the legs of the first boy in the line in any way whatsoever and to think kids would walk around naked from the waste down yet still wear their shirts, wooly scout jumpers, neckchief and woggles is simply laughable!! perhaps they should have been supplied with raincoats too so they could stand along the main road next to the camp and flash at any passing female drivers who had the misfortune to drive down that way, they could even have created a scout badge for it!!
 
Another pic shows boys walking naked with a woman and small child on a beach which is claimed to be in Wales. There are no private beaches in Wales that are not holiday or caravan parks and only one naturist beach. If the pic is on the naturist beach then the whole story is in question as well as being off topic, if not then its on a public beach and any decent loving parent who discovered their child had been subject to such degradation in public at the hands of educaters, would be outraged and would alert the authorities to such practices! my parents certainly would have if it had been me!!
 
The comments by the people following the thread on that site are pretty much all the same, something like... "oh yeah it happend to me all the time"... and... "we always had to be naked in front of girls at every available opportunity in my day" etc etc, no doubt slapping the backs of their heads while typing their comments!  
 
Seriously tho Allan, if you cant see the OBVIOUS faking thats been done to those original pics you linked to then your in need of some ophthalmic help or maybe you just dont want to see it?!
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #27 on: Jul 31st, 2010, 11:32am »
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I posted a link earlier in a discussion about males swimming nude, and whether females were present. That blog has been removed, but it finally convinced me that it did happen.Not everywhere, maybe not common ,but  it did happen. I think the big problem is that their are so many fakes out there ,that some will not believe it , when they see a pic that is the real deal. Even on this site if you go to "Nude Swim Classes", it says you are seeing a "rare photo" of a female instructor , with boys lined up getting ready for swim class. This is actually from the 1985 movie "Heaven Help Us", starring  Andrew McCarthy. It is a very funny scene at a Catholic boys school, and the instructor is a monk (male).http://www.sensations4women.com/sportsIni/index.html
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #28 on: Jul 31st, 2010, 11:47am »
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http://www.gay-male-celebs.com/category/andrew-mccarthy/   Here is pics from movie, and video clip.  Even this site gets it wrong, the movie is called    "Heaven Help Us".    WARNING     (this is a gay website)
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #29 on: Aug 1st, 2010, 12:55pm »
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Ive noticed that many stills from films are often passed off as "real cfnm" when in fact they are just staged for a movie or tv show. One instance was on this very site and the subject was Russian recruits having a medical with females present or something? which in the end turned out to be scenes from a film.
 
Well pointed out jonjon!
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #30 on: Aug 5th, 2010, 4:58am »
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on Jul 29th, 2010, 2:51pm, jibbo wrote:
Sorry Allan but I didnt post any pictures.  I posted a link to a website that shows you how its done. There are literally hundreds of sites showing how to take a picture of a clothed person and make them look naked, there are even video tutorials!
One site will even do the work for you, for a small fee.  
 
The queueing for food pic is the most obvious! the colours do not match the legs of the first boy in the line in any way whatsoever and to think kids would walk around naked from the waste down yet still wear their shirts, wooly scout jumpers, neckchief and woggles is simply laughable!! perhaps they should have been supplied with raincoats too so they could stand along the main road next to the camp and flash at any passing female drivers who had the misfortune to drive down that way, they could even have created a scout badge for it!!
 
Another pic shows boys walking naked with a woman and small child on a beach which is claimed to be in Wales. There are no private beaches in Wales that are not holiday or caravan parks and only one naturist beach. If the pic is on the naturist beach then the whole story is in question as well as being off topic, if not then its on a public beach and any decent loving parent who discovered their child had been subject to such degradation in public at the hands of educaters, would be outraged and would alert the authorities to such practices! my parents certainly would have if it had been me!!
 
The comments by the people following the thread on that site are pretty much all the same, something like... "oh yeah it happend to me all the time"... and... "we always had to be naked in front of girls at every available opportunity in my day" etc etc, no doubt slapping the backs of their heads while typing their comments!  
 
Seriously tho Allan, if you cant see the OBVIOUS faking thats been done to those original pics you linked to then your in need of some ophthalmic help or maybe you just dont want to see it?!

 
Jibbo, you are wrong on all counts. At the risk of having the link deleted also, here are photos of boyscout camps in Europe skinnydipping just a few years ago. So is it any wonder that this also happened some forty years ago with even younger boys who may have had female leaders?
From what I have read it was quite common in Britain for young cub scouts, especially small groups, to have female leaders. And remember there wasn't the scare of young nudity back then as there is now, it was taken for granted and accepted by everyone as natural back then.
 
(Link edited by myself.)
 
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #31 on: Aug 5th, 2010, 8:49am »
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Some people are seriously NOT listening to me here!!
 
My comments are on the SCOUTS IN WALES pics only and NOT scouts in any other part of the world!!
 
I do not deny that this kind of thing happens and has happened in the past (even though there are no females in the pics you have linked to) but NOT in Britain which has always been a far more reserved and private culture.
I myself was a cub scout in England in the early 1970's and believe me this kind of thing just did NOT happen. It was considered unthinkable and my parents would have caused some serious sh*t if they found out it had happened to me. In fact Im certain my Dad would have done prison time for anyone who had placed his kids in such a situation! such was the attitude of the majority in Britain at that time!
 
The pics Allan C linked to are definate fakes! in my mind there is absolutely no doubt of that!! However I do NOT dismiss his claims that a similar situation happened to him in the USA!
 
Please go back and read my comments again before you accuse me of being "wrong on all counts"!!
 
I also think it would be a good idea to remove that link!
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #32 on: Aug 5th, 2010, 12:54pm »
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on Jul 24th, 2010, 7:46pm, Allan_C. wrote:
This most enduring of subjects...
 
These three pictures are included in a series of pictures purportedly showing Welsh cub scouts swimming nude under the auspices of female cub leaders who encouraged the boys to nudity. Also, a local girl in attendance.
 
 
I cannot personally vouch for these pictures, but if someone created them as a hoax, it is certainly an elaborate one. Most of the pics are of boys swimming or otherwise playing nude, and most have comments by the poster who is, again purportedly, in the pics himself.
 
Worth browsing through the series if one is interested in this subject, because to my eye they seem genuine.
 
 
(Malibug) Alan, I have removed your pictures because they are of children!!! please think how much damage this could do before posting in future. Frankly I find them quite disturbing and even more disturbing is the fact you see nothing wrong with posting them!
 

Oy, what a mess this is because I think everyone (most everyone) is trying to act in good faith.
 
Speaking as a moderator, I don't like everything I see posted on this website, Images or Stories, however, I do try to follow the "Rules For Posting" as developed by Brad, whcih among other things, state as follows:
 
3.  Absolutely no posts containing discussion, photos, videos or any graphic representation of anything dealing with pedophilia, under-age sexual encounters, incest, beastiality, rape or illegal flashing of women.   This site is not for unwanted "agressive" exposure of male nudity in front of women.
 
By all accounts, (and I have NOT read each and every post in this thread)  the images (Photoshopped or not) that were linked here were non-sexual in nature and perhaps the post should have been marked "O/T" (hindsight being 20:20) to avoid the "Is this really CFNM" controversy (yawn!) that has IMO become so tiresome here, though I defend to the death your right to engage in it.
 
Allan_C is one of the most "stand-up" members of this community and I would trust his judgment in terms of keeping this website out of trouble.  I think Allan's intent was to introduce some documentation of the so-called double-standard of male nudity/female modesty.
 
All of this being said, I know "malibug" and I am sure he was coming from a place of wanting to avoid even a scintilla of law enforcement problems for VSFW.  I know him to be a reasonable person.  I will not second guess his removal of the link in question as I have not seen the images or the context.
 
@ malibug:  I will say that it was perhaps unnecessary to chide Allan_C as you did, even if it was in the heat of the moment.
 
That's my two cents.
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #33 on: Aug 5th, 2010, 3:24pm »
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Thanks Rick, I appreciate your comments. I did think that Malibug over-reacted, as I said somewhere in my postings, but my view now is to let the whole matter rest. And I recognize what a thankless job being a moderator must be at times. I have been contacted by a number of people for links to the site and have responded to them so they can judge for themselves, but otherwise it's a dead issue for me.
 
I have to admit that sometimes I am amazed at even my own ability to get into these things as if something important was at stake. I think of my own apparently very innocent childhood and the variety of CFNM and other experiences I had back then (some of which were photoed). Then I contrast it with the heat such subjects generate in some folks these days, and I have to wonder how could the culture have changed that much.
 
Ah, the mysteries of time and space...
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #34 on: Aug 6th, 2010, 6:05pm »
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It's curious, Bobby_Bare, that your link on July 29th goes to a site with adds of porn sites.  Do you really believe that is a proper place for pics of nude kids, no matter how innocent, or natural they are?
 
I think these pics were of a memorable trip that was enjoyed by all involved, with no sexual overtones at all.  I don't believe the pics were originally intended to be sexual in nature, but they are now, since someone on that site will enjoy them in a sexual way.  Congratulations, you've made a pedophile somewhere very happy.  What were you thinking!Huh  Or perhaps you just weren't!  I don't believe that was your intention, but that is the result.
 
This post grew increasingly harsh as I wrote it, but I do not make any apologies for it.  Children put in such a situation makes my blood boil!
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #35 on: Aug 6th, 2010, 7:36pm »
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JIBBO, allow me to ask a question. Sounds like your parents would be very upset if you were put in that situation. Have to assume you are talking about the scouts swimming nude. Would they have been upset because you were allowed to swim nude or the whole nude swimming event took place? Am not being critical. Am asking because my mother was the complete opposite of how your parents were. She actually approved or somewhat insisted that I swim nude past the age of it being approprate. Believe it was her way of keeping me from growing up. Young boys dont need bathing suits.  
 Was there a lot of modesty enforced as you were growing up? At my age I am trying to figure out why I am the way I am. I believe it goes back to my childhood. If I am ask, at what point in life did you become comfortable with nudity? Your visiting this site shows that you have somekind of interest. When did it start?  
  My take on the boy scout pictures. Nothing out of the ordinary there, boys doing what they do having fun. Will admit that I am slightly spooked by the presence of the adult man in the pictures. Only times there was an nude adult around when I went skinny dipping was at the Y. One other thing I find a bit out of the ordinary are the pictures of all the boys holding hands. Past the age of 5 or 6, in my experience, boys did not hold hands. Someone is instructing them to do so. Thats just my take, all and all, nothing wrong with the pictures.  LEO C
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #36 on: Aug 7th, 2010, 5:42am »
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on Aug 6th, 2010, 6:05pm, PumpkinEater wrote:
It's curious, Bobby_Bare, that your link on July 29th goes to a site with adds of porn sites.  Do you really believe that is a proper place for pics of nude kids, no matter how innocent, or natural they are?
 
I think these pics were of a memorable trip that was enjoyed by all involved, with no sexual overtones at all.  I don't believe the pics were originally intended to be sexual in nature, but they are now, since someone on that site will enjoy them in a sexual way.  Congratulations, you've made a pedophile somewhere very happy.  What were you thinking!Huh  Or perhaps you just weren't!  I don't believe that was your intention, but that is the result.
 
This post grew increasingly harsh as I wrote it, but I do not make any apologies for it.  Children put in such a situation makes my blood boil!

 
I understand your preoccupation, but my whole point in giving that link was to convince the few skeptics here that all  pictures showing scouts skinnydipping are fake and photoshopped, whether in the presence of females or not.
 Actually I was weighing it several times over whether to post the link or not in case it would be misinterpreted as you say, and you certainly have my permission to delete the link if you want since the point has been made. In fact if this site allows for self editing I am going to delete it myself.
About that site in question it is in fact a non-sexual site and all pictures showing sex or of a sexual nature are not allowed and deleted if posted. It is like a Facebook where one can post their personal albums of a non-sexual nature, and as one can see it falls under different categories, from cars, hobbies, family, landscape etc. I think the pictures in question fall under the category of Nudity, and that is as far as it goes, in spite of the advertisements shown which have nothing to do with the site, they are obviously paid adverts by other sites.
Sorry for the controversy but I had to prove a point.
One last thing about pedophiles, I think they would know where to look on the Internet if they were interested in such subject and would not be impressed with such a link. Many perfectly legal nudist sites show pictures much more explicit than that.
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #37 on: Aug 8th, 2010, 5:48pm »
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on Aug 6th, 2010, 7:36pm, leo_c wrote:
JIBBO, allow me to ask a question. Sounds like your parents would be very upset if you were put in that situation. Have to assume you are talking about the scouts swimming nude. Would they have been upset because you were allowed to swim nude or the whole nude swimming event took place? Am not being critical. Am asking because my mother was the complete opposite of how your parents were. She actually approved or somewhat insisted that I swim nude past the age of it being approprate. Believe it was her way of keeping me from growing up. Young boys dont need bathing suits.  
 Was there a lot of modesty enforced as you were growing up? At my age I am trying to figure out why I am the way I am. I believe it goes back to my childhood. If I am ask, at what point in life did you become comfortable with nudity? Your visiting this site shows that you have somekind of interest. When did it start?  
LEO C

 
Let me ask you just one question...
 
Did you bother to read all my posts in this thread?
 
I wont answer it for you but I think everyone reading your comment can easily guess the answer!
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #38 on: Aug 8th, 2010, 6:52pm »
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 Yes, read them a few times. Thought my question would allow you to go into greater detail concerning you thoughts, this has turned out to be a discussion. Apologize if I have offended you in any way. LEO C
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #39 on: Aug 8th, 2010, 11:31pm »
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Leo let me assure you that you have not offended me in any way. Its just that it becomes quite tiresome when one has to explain oneself over and over.
 
Let me reiterate.  
I am concerned only with the pics and references to the "scouts in Wales" which was the original post by Allen on the subject in this thread.
I myself was a cub scout in the north west of England, near the Welsh border, at the time period of the original subject pics, and used to visit camps and other locations in Wales quite frequently.
 
Even in summer the UK does not have the best climate in the world, so wondering about wearing a cub scout shirt, jumper, and neckchief with your balls dangling would not be considered the best way to enjoy it!
Everyone I grew up with would tell you that exhibitionism was at the time severely frowned upon! I remember one kid in my primery school (a right psycho he was) showed his chipolata to one of the girls, She ran screaming from the playground and told the teacher after which he got a damn good hiding! and when his mother got told he got another damn good hiding!
 
So let me set the scene...  
the scouts return after a weekend in Wales...
Dad: whats up son?
Lad: sob sniff Akela made me take my pants off and show the girls my willy!
Dad: did he now??
 
Newspaper Headline a few days later...
 
PAEDOPHILE SCOUT LEADER STILL ON LIFE SUPPORT!
Public demand it be switched off!

 
I am still in touch with a number of school friends who were also scouts with me, and if I refered them to this forum and they had the opportunity to view the original subject images they would be shocked and concur with me that the images are fake and such incidents never took place!!
 
I make no comments on any other images or any situations outside of the UK.  
Underneath our clothes we are all naked so obviously situations can arise where people will be naked either purposely or accidentally in the presence of someone of the opposite gender.
 
I enjoy CFNM in a consenting and controlled situation! However I do understand that with sexual fetish comes sexual fantasy and some will let the fantasy overtake real life and fantasy becomes reality!  
it only takes the mere suggestion that a fetish situation took place and they will believe it because they need to believe it like a drug addict needs a toot!
hence the way in which the original subject pics were appraised by members of the site on which they were posted.
 
ahh thankyooo!
I'm here all week!!  Grin
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #40 on: Aug 9th, 2010, 2:17am »
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Jibbo, I think what you are undervaluing is when those pictures were taken. They look to me like they are circa the 1950s.
 
You were a cub scout in the 1970s (in the UK). I was in a cub scout in the 1940s (in the US). In my time, in my country, nudity such as those pics show would not have been considered pedophilia, though they might (or might not) have been considered such in the 1970s. (It would likely be considered such in some quarters today, I gather, even though there is no sexual activity whatsoever in the pictures I linked to. It is true that today some extremists link pics of nude children to sex automatically, regardless of whether or not any sex acts are involved or implied. To these rather bizarre people apparently nude kids = sex with kids.)  In any case, I did, as I mentioned earlier, experience nudity in the cub scouts when I was in, though not in a swimming context, nor was it photoed. (It occurred in the context of my participating in a "minstrel show", something I find excruciatingly embarrassing to admit today.) But at that time it was considered innocent, was supervised by women. And by the way Akela in those cub scout pics is the name of the woman, not a man, who leads the pack.
 
I do not doubt you experienced no nudity in cub scouts in the UK in the 1970s. And believe me I have nothing but sympathy for you when you say you get damned tired at having to explain yourself over and over. I have been there and done that many, many times on this board concerning my experiences swimming nude in the 1940s. As Rodney correctly pointed out, it gets damned tiresome to be lectured by someone who was not there about what happened or did not happen in one's own experience.
 
My belief is this: if cub scouts in the US in the 1940s could have been photoed in the type of innocent nudity those pictures show -- and I believe they certainly could have been -- then they might well have been taken in a quite similar culture, like Wales, as well. Note that I am not saying such pics in the US were the norm -- not at all. Nor do I think they were necessarily the norm in Wales in the 1950s. But that does not prove they never happened.
 
Times have changed radically. Back in those days pics of kids nude were routinely taken. I know of several such pics in my own family's family albums of the period, a few involving yours truly. But during the 1980s and 1990s you could read in the paper from time to time about people being charged with all sorts of preposterous crimes when suddenly the local photo shop, which had hitherto-fore routinely processed pics of nude kids, decided they could no longer do so and involved the police. Times had changed. Another example: I was cleaning out my desk a few weeks ago and came across a note sent to me by a girl friend about 1973. It is regular Hallmark-type card, no doubt purchased in a card store. Inside is the legend "Wish you were here." and on the cover is a black and white photo of a nude, smiling little girl with her hands around the genitals of a squirming little boy. Both of them are no older than three.
 
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Re: Boys swimming nude with female supervision...
« Reply #41 on: Aug 10th, 2010, 11:18am »
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No Allan those pics were taken in the 1970's and I would say the one with the scouts waiting at the trailer with the girl was taken either 1976 or 1977.
 
The long denim skirt the girl is wearing was a very popular fashion item in the mid to late 70's and the parts of the scouts uniforms that have not been airbrushed over are typical 1970's style.
 
Quote:
it gets damned tiresome to be lectured by someone who was not there about what happened or did not happen in one's own experience

 
Thats very true and its how Ive felt over this whole issue. I have no doubt whatsoever that your experiences are quite true as Ive read elsewhere that these things happened in the USA and other countries particularly in the YMCA and such places, but when your banging your head against a wall trying to explain that this kind of thing either didnt happen in our society at that time or was so rare to the extreme that it would only happen in naturist clubs and why would boy scouts attend a naturist club?
 
The guy on that site you linked to who posted those pics is just living his fantasy! he has airbrushed a few of his old pics (thats accepting that they are his pics in the first place!) and posted them on a site renowned for images of that ilk to give himself and his followers a cheap thrill!
 
I would imagine if the other people in those images were to find out what he has done they would be extremely pissed and legal action would follow!!
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